ProModeler Servos

[Grizz03]

If it’s a small micro servo that is probably designed for RC planes and you used it for bashing in an RC without a servo saver so do you think it’s ProModelers fault and that they should eat the cost? I’m not so sure that was a manufacturer defect which would have been covered under warranty.
...
I’m not trying to be a jerk here, but just trying to point out the other point of view.

What about this scenario:
They do recommend that servo for SCX24's and TRX4m's in which neither vehicle use a servo saver. If it's recommended for a particular use and it breaks in that use who's fault would it be now?

I have talked to the owner myself, and I thought he was actually very nice and professional and he answers all my questions. Looking at it from his standpoint of view, though I can see how he doesn’t like to be taken advantage of if a customer broke one of his servos, and then tried to blame ProModeler for it.

When I got my DS470BLHV (standard size) a while back he answered my email great. Then a bit later I asked a question about another servo (mini size) since they manufacture them inhouse (I wanted one with the mounting ears without holes or changed to a center hole) and was basically told "tough". Not "sorry I can't help with that" or a similar customer relations response but just to deal with it because his servos are too strong and needed to be held in with 4 screws.

I do agree that there is many customers, not just dealing with ProModeler but everywhere in general, that do take advantage.

 

[JCsRCcar]

It has 125oz/in torque with steel gears. That's definitely MORE than capable of surviving in a 1/18 scale RC with heavy bashing and a solid servo horn, that is, had it been a quality servo. And that's definitely not intended for airplane use. Servos with far less torque would have held up I'm sure.

I believe that tiny servo was used in a small scale LMT which is about the harshest vehicle scale wise you can subject a micro servo like that to. Think large heavy wheels, no servo saver, and one impact that could easily put more impact stress on those gears than a micro crawler moving along at slow speeds likely would. If you read the notes under that servo on the website he goes into depth about not forcing the servo to turn with your hand or it will break the gears and void the warranty.

I don't know of any business that gets a government contract that just barely makes a profit

And that is probably what keeps him in business otherwise if he had to rely on just retail direct sales maybe not.

What about this scenario:
They do recommend that servo for SCX24's and TRX4m's in which neither vehicle use a servo saver. If it's recommended for a particular use and it breaks in that use who's fault would it be now?

When I got my DS470BLHV (standard size) a while back he answered my email great. Then a bit later I asked a question about another servo (mini size) since they manufacture them inhouse (I wanted one with the mounting ears without holes or changed to a center hole) and was basically told "tough". Not "sorry I can't help with that" or a similar customer relations response but just to deal with it because his servos are too strong and needed to be held in with 4 screws.

I do agree that there is many customers, not just dealing with ProModeler but everywhere in general, that do take advantage.

On your first point I would agree but like I said to wicked frog your situation doesn't really fit the SCX24 or TRX4 unless I am mistaken and you are not using that tiny servo in a smaller LMT.

On your second point I’m sorry to hear this if your quotes are true. I would agree, not a good way to treat customers.



And for reference I believe this was the servo use. Please correct me if I am wrong. https://www.promodeler.com/DS125CLHV

 

[WickedFog]

I believe that tiny servo was used in a small scale LMT which is about the harshest vehicle scale wise you can subject a micro servo like that to. Think large heavy wheels, no servo saver, and one impact that could easily put more impact stress on those gears than a micro crawler moving along at slow speeds likely would. If you read the notes under that servo on the website he goes into depth about not forcing the servo to turn with your hand or it will break the gears and void the warranty.

Hammer said it only took a light bump to destroy it. If the owner is going to take the mentality that every customer is a lyer, that's just bad business practices. It's not like those gears are made of gold. So it wouldn't cost the guy much at all to repair it. Much better than losing a customer (or more).

The fact remains, 125 oz/in in a 1/18 scale... that should never fail. That's a stout servo for a lot of 1/10 scale RC's if you consider the servos we had back in the 80's.

@Hammer Down - did you pull it apart and inspect the damage? I'd be very curious to see it.

 

[JCsRCcar]

But its a tiny micro servo in an LMT with large heavy wheels without a servo saver. An impact or bump (subjective) can put enough impact stress on those tiny gears to strip them. There is nothing to absorb any impact big or small so something has to give. Its just not a servo that was designed for that kind of use and the owner even says so. So I'm sure the owner opened it, saw the stripped gearing or broken shaft, and said to himself this thing was not used as it was intended to.

Right from the notes on that servo:
Note1

“These are tiny servos with even tinier gears and operating them manually via the servo horn may damage them. This damage is not covered by warranty. Please do not treat these like a standard size servos. If you fit a servo arm and zing is back and forth to feel the compression (just kidding) and damage it, it's on you. You've been warned.”

I agree, open that servo if you have it. Id like to see it too.

 

[WickedFog]

“These are tiny servos with even tinier gears and operating them manually via the servo horn may damage them. This damage is not covered by warranty. Please do not treat these like a standard size servos. If you fit a servo arm and zing is back and forth to feel the compression (just kidding) and damage it, it's on you. You've been warned.”

I agree, open that servo if you have it. Id like to see it too.

Then I wouldn't buy them. That statement to me says "our servos are junk".

 

[Grizz03]

On your first point I would agree but like I said to wicked frog your situation doesn't really fit the SCX24 or TRX4 unless I am mistaken and you are not using that tiny servo in a smaller LMT.


And for reference I believe this was the servo use. Please correct me if I am wrong. https://www.promodeler.com/DS125CLHV

I'm not using that servo or a LMT myself. You made a point of not having a servo saver as a reason for failure in an earlier post. I'm only pointing out that in the description it is recommended for use in the SCX24 and the TRX4m and both of those vehicles do not have a servo saver.

 

[JCsRCcar]

Then I wouldn't buy them. That statement to me says "our servos are junk".

I wouldn't buy one of those micro servos either to bash with in an LMT and especially without a servo saver.

I'm not using that servo or a LMT myself. You made a point of not having a servo saver as a reason for failure in an earlier post. I'm only pointing out that in the description it is recommended for use in the SCX24 and the TRX4m and both of those vehicles do not have a servo saver.

I’m not the expert on small crawlers but I might venture to guess that they do not have servo savers in them (assuming this is true) because they are used in very low impact situations hence the reason ProModler recommended that micro servo for those small RC crawlers.

 

[WickedFog]

I wouldn't buy one of those micro servos either to bash with in an LMT and especially without a servo saver.

I’m not the expert on small crawlers but I might venture to guess that they do not have servo savers in them (assuming this is true) because they are used in very low impact situations hence the reason ProModler recommended that micro servo for those small RC crawlers.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. It's a 1/18 scale truck with a servo with 5x the torque rating of plastic geared servos we used in much faster, and heavier 1/10 scale kits in the 80's. I have micro servos I would have no fear at all sticking in a mini LMT with no saver. The mentality people have with regards to how much torque is needed to run an RC these days is just crazy.

And it wouldn't cost the guy much to just fix it. That's why I wanna see what's damaged.

 

[Grizz03]

I wouldn't buy one of those micro servos either to bash with in an LMT and especially without a servo saver.

I’m not the expert on small crawlers but I might venture to guess that they do not have servo savers in them (assuming this is true) because they are used in very low impact situations hence the reason ProModler recommended that micro servo for those small RC crawlers.

Just a FYI, the stock servo (in the 1/18 mini LMT) is a SX108 micro servo that's only rated for 41.8oz.

I’m not the expert on small crawlers but I might venture to guess that they do not have servo savers in them (assuming this is true) because they are used in very low impact situations hence the reason ProModler recommended that micro servo for those small RC crawlers.

Taking a quick minute to look at either of those RC's or take a second to do some research at what it was replacing shows the Promodeler has much higher spec's and is referred to itself as an extreme duty servo that uses the best and most durable material for its gears. I'm not advocating not to use a servo saver but with all the hype they put in the description they should be bulletproof.

 

[Grizz03]

I'm not saying ProModeler servos are bad only how their business practices have changed from years past to how they are now. They market their servos as the greatest to be made but when anything does happen it's automatically the users fault because of abuse.

 

[9x19]

Thanks for the heads up... no excuse for poor customer service in today's workd.

 

[JCsRCcar]

Every manufacturer makes or comes out with new products that may have issues from time to time and obviously ProModeler is not immune to this fact. I have many of their standard size servos, and they are fantastic and have definitely lived up to their hype. I don’t know what his manufacturing costs are, but because these servos are made in the USA, I would guess his profit margins ($49 MASRP price less cost to build) for that servo aren’t very big. The slim margins for turning a profit (purpose of a business) in an industry that is shrinking could be contributing to his perceived stinginess in absorbing the cost of replacing a servo that has striped gears on his dime. Of course, with capitalism we have other choices and so you guys can obviously take your business elsewhere if you’re not happy with his products or his services and I think that is great.

This has been a rather nice polished and civilized discussion/debate and everybody here has made some great points. It is very nice when not everybody agrees on something, but they debated it with respect for each other like we have done here. I’m sure this discussion will be very helpful to others who may someday do research into ProModeler micro servos and find this discussion. Thanks everybody for keeping this discussion and debate so civilized.

Great Forum to be on here!

 

[Grizz03]

I don’t know what his manufacturing costs are, but because these servos are made in the USA, I would guess his profit margins ($49 MASRP price less cost to build) for that servo aren’t very big. The slim margins for turning a profit (purpose of a business) in an industry that is shrinking could be contributing to his perceived stinginess in absorbing the cost of replacing a servo that has striped gears on his dime.

I'm going to have to disagree here. I don't think this is some nickle and dime company. Anybody that's making or supplying a product for a large scale contract is most definitely buying components in large quantities and not as an on-needed basis. Below is a comment that tells me they also have an advantage over the "other guys."

Quoted from their site: "one of the principal reasons for wanting this servo are the MIL-SPEC components and genuine Nobel potentiometer because you get consistency. These are game changers for the sport and while we pioneered their application expressly to suit our largest customer (the one delivering ordnance on a target 8000 miles away via GPS-steering), the intense R&D required just happens to suit your needs as well. Think of it as a little lagniappe derived from your tax dollars at work!"

For any company to say that they could care less about having your business and we're just a secondary side customer to their main customer ain't hurting in profits.

I have many of their standard size servos, and they are fantastic and have definitely lived up to their hype. ...Of course, with capitalism we have other choices and so you guys can obviously take your business elsewhere if you’re not happy with his products or his services and I think that is great.

And there is many others (me included) that have had good luck too. There's always choices and that's a great thing! Being informed in the not so obvious of a product or service only adds to a better informed decision.

Great Forum to be on here!

I think so too!

 

[JCsRCcar]

Interesting, so it looks like his biggest customer (the government) is covering his expenses and if he looses some sales on a $50 micro servo, well then not a big deal I guess.

good find!

 

[Hammer Down]

I didn’t come here to bash pro modeler I just wanted to express my experience. That being said, I guess this particular servo paired with this particular model just don’t work well together.. I actually reached out to Promodeler and talk to John himself before purchasing and asked him which of his servos he recommended for this particular model? I said I don’t necessarily want the fastest. I just want the strongest one you have in this particular size that will work with this model. He replied with the DS 125 was the strongest of his servos in that size, so I said great I’ll probably try one of those.
Maybe my expectations were too high maybe I was misled by the videos I watched with similar servos using a solid horn, not having any problems. I don’t know.. I will try a different servo of a different brand and see how that fares.

Yesterday John responded and refunded the cost of the servo. So I really have no qualms with them. I’ve been treated fairly. He does have a bit of a chip on his shoulder tho as others have mentioned.
Maybe in the future I’ll try one of their standard or 1/5 scale servos, as I’m sure they are much beefier.

 

[WickedFog]

I can't find any info on whether he makes his own parts, or if he outsources them. But tiny gears for a micro servo could be made in a Swiss machine for pennies. Those machines do multiple processes on multiple parts at the same time, like an assembly line. And steel is dirt cheap. Here is a really complex part being made on a Swiss machine.

I didn’t come here to bash pro modeler I just wanted to express my experience. That being said, I guess this particular servo paired with this particular model just don’t work well together.. I actually reached out to Promodeler and talk to John himself before purchasing and asked him which of his servos he recommended for this particular model? I said I don’t necessarily want the fastest. I just want the strongest one you have in this particular size that will work with this model. He replied with the DS 125 was the strongest of his servos in that size, so I said great I’ll probably try one of those.
Maybe my expectations were too high maybe I was misled by the videos I watched with similar servos using a solid horn, not having any problems. I don’t know.. I will try a different servo of a different brand and see how that fares.

Yesterday John responded and refunded the cost of the servo. So I really have no qualms with them. I’ve been treated fairly. He does have a bit of a chip on his shoulder tho as others have mentioned.
Maybe in the future I’ll try one of their standard or 1/5 scale servos, as I’m sure they are much beefier.

Well that changes things. Good to know. I'd still love to see what failed.

 

[Hammer Down]

I'd still love to see what failed.

I was tempted to open it up, but I figured that might void any kind of chance at a warranty..

 

[WickedFog]

I was tempted to open it up, but I figured that might void any kind of chance at a warranty..

Oh. Are you sending it back?

 

[Hammer Down]

I sent it back immediately after it broke and contacting John.

 

[Grizz03]

That's great @Hammer Down

Nobody's bashing his product. At least I didn't think so. They really are well made and have good specs/prices. It's unfortunate you happened to have had bad luck with yours. I think this was more about customer service.