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Got Nitro?
Hardcore RCTalk User
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- #24
So far. I've started it rich to lean/Lean to rich, With no differnces,The screw that's a bitch to turn,Is the idle screw,It seem's kinda tight to open or close,and it's ass backwards,Turning it in open's the slide,Turning it out closes the slide. Still have yet to figure out why it won't start. I've got about 7 hour's into this engine and I'm still confused.I'm going to take it out and reseal, It's running at a high idle. So it might very possibly be a airleak.If it's an airleak it's gotta be around the pullstart.
GN, a couple other places I've been hunting around in suggest turning the mid speed needle all the way in. I also believe I have a soft copy of the engine manual as well. I'll check when I get home this evening.
Jon, I actually called them a few months ago and was basically told the engine is engineered and manufactured to such tight tolerances that the tuning sweet spot is very small, blah, blah, blah. They were very cordial, but also had quite an air of arrogance around them.
Jon, I actually called them a few months ago and was basically told the engine is engineered and manufactured to such tight tolerances that the tuning sweet spot is very small, blah, blah, blah. They were very cordial, but also had quite an air of arrogance around them.
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- #28
There's a mid needle? I know about the high/low/idle but i noticed there's a screw on the side of the carb kiddy corner to the idle screw,could that be it? Whatever it is it's screwed all the way in.
beason
Bash, Fix, Repeat..
the mid needle is on the opposite side of the slide. normaly is it factory at flush to the carb body, but you need to check that..
Got Nitro?
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- #30
beason said:
I need to find the engine manual first.
Well I'm taking the truck to my lhs have them figure out the problem,The blister's on my hand are worth paying the $10 for them to find and fix the problem.
I've got one, I just need to scan it in and I can send it to you.
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- #32
I broke down, I dropped the truck at my not so lhs. They're charging me $10 to tune it,but if it has to be tore apart(god i hope not) it's $20 a hour plus the $10 tuning charge. Hopefully the owner of the lhs can figure it out since I'm about ready to shoot something. The lhs told me i can pick it up friday after 5pm. So ill have it saturday just incase.
Two days to tune it? If they say they have to tear it down, I'd suggest you telling them NOT to!
The reality is, the Wasp is a bitch to tune, end of story. I have yet to read a single thread or post on any forum that says otherwise. I am not necessarily saying they are bad engines, because when they are tuned, WOW, they are fast, but getting them to that point is enough to age you!
If it's something you do not have the patience for (like me) you may want to shelve it before you start talking to rocks!
The reality is, the Wasp is a bitch to tune, end of story. I have yet to read a single thread or post on any forum that says otherwise. I am not necessarily saying they are bad engines, because when they are tuned, WOW, they are fast, but getting them to that point is enough to age you!
If it's something you do not have the patience for (like me) you may want to shelve it before you start talking to rocks!
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- #34
Monkey Wrench said:
Moneky,I know what your saying. That pita to tune is why I'm having the lhs to tune it,it's $10 no matter how long it take's them,There isn't a need to tear the engine down,Unless the need to seal the pullstart since it's not sealed. I'm going to call them tomorrow when the owner who does the tuning is in,Since yesterday was is anniversary he took today(congrats to him) so I'm just gonna catch up with him tomorrow and talk face to face with him on saturday about it.
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- #36
bustedgears said:
Yeah but it's also me who's trying to use it. It can be a brand new engine broken in from a best freind. And ill still have trouble. No matter's if it's used or new i still have everything go wierd on me.
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- #37
Well i got good new's and bad new's,the good new's is the engine run's like a champ. Tim the owner of my lhs called me and told me i was a full turn off on the top end and half a turn on the bottom end,wich is why it wouldn't take fuel. Because of how minor the adjustment's were he's not charging me anything
Bad new's,After i got excited about the engine being tuned correctlly,He told me that the truck's not moving.He told me the spur spins,cb spin's,but the bottom shaft isn't moving at all. So I'm looking at having to replace tranny gear's.Thankfully i ordered a 3 speed tranny(hehe) thinking it would be a cool hop up,And well now it's gonna be my main. So hopefully whenever my tran's will get here will be when i get to run my savage for the first time ever.
Bad new's,After i got excited about the engine being tuned correctlly,He told me that the truck's not moving.He told me the spur spins,cb spin's,but the bottom shaft isn't moving at all. So I'm looking at having to replace tranny gear's.Thankfully i ordered a 3 speed tranny(hehe) thinking it would be a cool hop up,And well now it's gonna be my main. So hopefully whenever my tran's will get here will be when i get to run my savage for the first time ever.
kx250ryder
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Here is an image of a three needle carburetor. If your carburetor doesn't have a middle speed needle, your low speed needle will likely be where the middle speed needle is.
Here is what I would suggest:
1.) Re-adjust your throttle linkage so that you can get the carburetor to open fully. Also, disconnect the linkage and close the carburetor by hand until it hits the stop screw(idle speed needle in picture). This is so you can get a feel for where you currently have your idle stop screw set to.
Re-connect the throttle linkage and make sure it pushes the carburetor slide all the way to the stop screw when you let off of the trigger on the transmitter. A common mistake is to have the linkage adjusted wrong, such that the carburetor slide isn't actually all the way to the stop screw, but is instead just being held in place by the linkage. If the stop screw isn't touching the slide at idle, then adjusting your idle screw won't do anything to change the engine's idle rpms.
2.) Set your needles to factory. If you don't know what those settings are, I would suggest:
High speed needle - Close needle all the way, until you just barely feel the threads bite (just getting snug). Back the needle out 3.5 turns.
Middle speed needle (if you have one) - Set the head of the needle flush with the carburetor housing.
Low speed needle - 3 turns out from fully closed (using method above)
Carburetor idle gap - .5 to 1mm
3.) Fully charge ignitor batteries. Make sure glow plug glows. Try to start car as normal. Try again with brand new plug even if current one glows (a glowing plug doesn't mean that it will work in the engine). If new plug doesn't help, start tuning. Once the engine is tuned from steps below, try old plug to see if it is still ok or not.
4.) Attempt to get car warmed up. If it is blubbery and spitting fuel, lean the high speed needle. Ignore what anyone says about how many turns it should be tuned to, engines are like fingerprints, nobodys are the same. Once the engine is warmed up, and about half way through the tank, keep leaning the high speed needle (clockwise) until maximum performance is reached. You will notice a point when performance no longer increases (car won't go any faster in high speed runs), you have gone too far. Back the needle off slightly (1/12-1/8th turn counter clockwise) to allow for the fact that the engine leans out at the end of the tankful.
5.) Once peak performance with the high speed needle has been reached, move to low speed needle. Run car around for a minute or so after warmed up (again around half tank level) bring the car in and immediately pinch the fuel and hold the fuel line until the engine dies. It should die within 5 seconds, and should only increase slightly in RPMs before dying. If it takes longer to die, and increases considerably in RPMs, and has difficulty dying, it is too rich. Lean the low speed needle. If, on the other hand, it bogs down and dies immediately, and does not increase in RPMs, it is too lean, and you need to richen the low speed needle. Note that your low speed needle setting has an effect on the idle of the car. The leaner the low speed needle, the higher it makes your idle and vice versa. Once you have your low speed needle roughly set, pick your car up off the ground, and adjust the idle screw to make the idle as high as possible without making the wheels move. Once you have the low speed needle roughly tuned by the pinch test and your idle set, tune for maximum performance by running around the track, stopping for 15 seconds or so at the beginning of the longest straightaway, and doing a full throttle takeoff. Lean the low speed needle until you get maximum launch (judging by acceleration and wheelspin).
Note: A common mistake is to run these engines too rich. Find a video clip of a race, such as the recent ROAR nationals at the Farm2 (perhaps here, or Neobuggy.net or the grid). Listen to just how whining-screaming-high-pitched these engines are when tuned properly (it surprised the hell out of me when I first heard it, they sound like they are going to explode compared to how rich I was running).
Many people run their engines blubbery and spitting fuel (as you mentioned above) and that puts alot of stress on the engines being in near hydrolock conditions, not to mention robbs all your performance, and makes keeping them running (and keeping your glow plugs working) a nightmare. These engines shouldn't even be rich during break in, just heat cycled in a couple minute intervals with cooldown in between.
Troubleshooting:
1.) From starting, the engine blubbers and dies when gas is applied
- check plug, if no effect then
- lean high speed needle 1/12th turn, if no effect then
- lean low speed needle 1/12th turn
2.) Car takes off slowly, tons of smoke
- lean high speed needle 1/12th turn, if no effect then
- lean low speed needle 1/12th turn
3.) If engine dies immediately when applying throttle (no blubber)
- richen high speed needle 1/12th turn, if no effect then
- richen low speed needle 1/12th turn
4.) If engine dies immediately when letting off the throttle
- richen high speed needle 1/12th turn, if no effect then
- richen low speed needle 1/12th turn
5.) If engine idles down extremely low right after letting off throttle
- lean low speed needle 1/12th turn
EDIT: AAAARRRGGGGHHHH!!! After spending a half hour typing this, I realized that I missed the last post saying that you got it running properly. I can't believe it.
Here is what I would suggest:
1.) Re-adjust your throttle linkage so that you can get the carburetor to open fully. Also, disconnect the linkage and close the carburetor by hand until it hits the stop screw(idle speed needle in picture). This is so you can get a feel for where you currently have your idle stop screw set to.
Re-connect the throttle linkage and make sure it pushes the carburetor slide all the way to the stop screw when you let off of the trigger on the transmitter. A common mistake is to have the linkage adjusted wrong, such that the carburetor slide isn't actually all the way to the stop screw, but is instead just being held in place by the linkage. If the stop screw isn't touching the slide at idle, then adjusting your idle screw won't do anything to change the engine's idle rpms.
2.) Set your needles to factory. If you don't know what those settings are, I would suggest:
High speed needle - Close needle all the way, until you just barely feel the threads bite (just getting snug). Back the needle out 3.5 turns.
Middle speed needle (if you have one) - Set the head of the needle flush with the carburetor housing.
Low speed needle - 3 turns out from fully closed (using method above)
Carburetor idle gap - .5 to 1mm
3.) Fully charge ignitor batteries. Make sure glow plug glows. Try to start car as normal. Try again with brand new plug even if current one glows (a glowing plug doesn't mean that it will work in the engine). If new plug doesn't help, start tuning. Once the engine is tuned from steps below, try old plug to see if it is still ok or not.
4.) Attempt to get car warmed up. If it is blubbery and spitting fuel, lean the high speed needle. Ignore what anyone says about how many turns it should be tuned to, engines are like fingerprints, nobodys are the same. Once the engine is warmed up, and about half way through the tank, keep leaning the high speed needle (clockwise) until maximum performance is reached. You will notice a point when performance no longer increases (car won't go any faster in high speed runs), you have gone too far. Back the needle off slightly (1/12-1/8th turn counter clockwise) to allow for the fact that the engine leans out at the end of the tankful.
5.) Once peak performance with the high speed needle has been reached, move to low speed needle. Run car around for a minute or so after warmed up (again around half tank level) bring the car in and immediately pinch the fuel and hold the fuel line until the engine dies. It should die within 5 seconds, and should only increase slightly in RPMs before dying. If it takes longer to die, and increases considerably in RPMs, and has difficulty dying, it is too rich. Lean the low speed needle. If, on the other hand, it bogs down and dies immediately, and does not increase in RPMs, it is too lean, and you need to richen the low speed needle. Note that your low speed needle setting has an effect on the idle of the car. The leaner the low speed needle, the higher it makes your idle and vice versa. Once you have your low speed needle roughly set, pick your car up off the ground, and adjust the idle screw to make the idle as high as possible without making the wheels move. Once you have the low speed needle roughly tuned by the pinch test and your idle set, tune for maximum performance by running around the track, stopping for 15 seconds or so at the beginning of the longest straightaway, and doing a full throttle takeoff. Lean the low speed needle until you get maximum launch (judging by acceleration and wheelspin).
Note: A common mistake is to run these engines too rich. Find a video clip of a race, such as the recent ROAR nationals at the Farm2 (perhaps here, or Neobuggy.net or the grid). Listen to just how whining-screaming-high-pitched these engines are when tuned properly (it surprised the hell out of me when I first heard it, they sound like they are going to explode compared to how rich I was running).
Many people run their engines blubbery and spitting fuel (as you mentioned above) and that puts alot of stress on the engines being in near hydrolock conditions, not to mention robbs all your performance, and makes keeping them running (and keeping your glow plugs working) a nightmare. These engines shouldn't even be rich during break in, just heat cycled in a couple minute intervals with cooldown in between.
Troubleshooting:
1.) From starting, the engine blubbers and dies when gas is applied
- check plug, if no effect then
- lean high speed needle 1/12th turn, if no effect then
- lean low speed needle 1/12th turn
2.) Car takes off slowly, tons of smoke
- lean high speed needle 1/12th turn, if no effect then
- lean low speed needle 1/12th turn
3.) If engine dies immediately when applying throttle (no blubber)
- richen high speed needle 1/12th turn, if no effect then
- richen low speed needle 1/12th turn
4.) If engine dies immediately when letting off the throttle
- richen high speed needle 1/12th turn, if no effect then
- richen low speed needle 1/12th turn
5.) If engine idles down extremely low right after letting off throttle
- lean low speed needle 1/12th turn
EDIT: AAAARRRGGGGHHHH!!! After spending a half hour typing this, I realized that I missed the last post saying that you got it running properly. I can't believe it.
Last edited:
bustedgears
Hardcore RCTalk User
Make sure the trans problem doesn't have to do with the reverse. Push the rod all the way in toward the tranny, then spin the spur gear.
I'm pretty sure that tranny doesn't have a problem.
Keep us posted.
I'm pretty sure that tranny doesn't have a problem.
Keep us posted.
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kx250, Man I'm glad you posted that,I'm printing that write up. That's a awesome description and suggestions,thank you for that.
Busted,I'm gonna try it in a few,I've already had 2 buddys suggest that. If the gear's are shot.It won't be a problem,I got a 3 speed kit coming
Well i wiggled the reverse linkage and the tranny work's freelly. Now my goddamn engine won't stay idleing,it just dies, and i hydrolocked the engine. lol i give up.Off to the shelf my savage goes.$400 into it and it still won't drive.
Busted,I'm gonna try it in a few,I've already had 2 buddys suggest that. If the gear's are shot.It won't be a problem,I got a 3 speed kit coming
Well i wiggled the reverse linkage and the tranny work's freelly. Now my goddamn engine won't stay idleing,it just dies, and i hydrolocked the engine. lol i give up.Off to the shelf my savage goes.$400 into it and it still won't drive.
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