Corvette jumping the shark....

[Lessen]

Look what Ford did with that beautiful little Thunderbird through the years. Where is it now?

Funny you bring that up... On their last attempt they kept with tradition (IMO), a sporty Sunday car. They were/are beautiful but they priced it high and produced it low. I would honestly say that last T-bird was 100% built to be a collector car... and that's exactly what it is.

Looking at it from a different perspective... Traditionalists are probably pretty few and far between. I kinda think I'm one of them. Many folks will be sold on the performance advantage of newer technology. Face it, a small displacement V-8 that revs to 9400 is (from a unbiased performance point of view) is a better option than a large displacement V-8 that revs to 7600 and weights 80lbs. more. If they make about the same horsepower the smaller engine makes building the rest of car easier because there is more flexibility in design. But some people LOVE tradition but at the end of the day I think they are the minority. However, in an effort to keep those faithful as Chevy customers I'm sure they will still offer a big V-8 for those who may want it.

I find myself making this decision as well just not with traditional sports car. I love to drive as well and I want my next car to be something that actually has some balls and the handling to back it up. However, I have 2 kids under 6 and I NEED 4 doors to keep me sane. For the amount of money I can probably only realistically afford 1 of 2 cars. The Mitsubishi Evo X or the Subaru WRX STi. If you've read/watched/heard anything about the current offerings of these two cars you probably know that the consensus is that the Evo drives circles around the STi. Now I'm all about full blown performance but.... That Evo does NOT have 3-pedals (in it's top trim). That is a problem. Yes, I want to drive "the best car" I can afford but do I really want to sacrifice my fondness for tradition to do so?

 

[pipisugbo]

using a dry sump oil system that’s particularly well suited to high-performance road courses rather than straight-line acceleration.

Well, they need to make the rest of the car suited for high-performance road courses too, instead of just straight-line speed.

Personally, the idea of a high-revving, turbo V8 gets me excited. Then again, I'm very partial to turbos.

I am very glad to see them taking input from the market and trying to produce a car that is more appealing...if the auto makers would do that consistently, maybe we won't have to bail them out again...

 

[robmob]

I find myself making this decision as well just not with traditional sports car. I love to drive as well and I want my next car to be something that actually has some balls and the handling to back it up. However, I have 2 kids under 6 and I NEED 4 doors to keep me sane. For the amount of money I can probably only realistically afford 1 of 2 cars. The Mitsubishi Evo X or the Subaru WRX STi. If you've read/watched/heard anything about the current offerings of these two cars you probably know that the consensus is that the Evo drives circles around the STi. Now I'm all about full blown performance but.... That Evo does NOT have 3-pedals (in it's top trim). That is a problem. Yes, I want to drive "the best car" I can afford but do I really want to sacrifice my fondness for tradition to do so?

I gave up my Toyota Supra when my daughter was born in 96 for a 4-Runner which I still drive. She will be driving in 2 years and I plan on passing the 4-Runner on to her.

I want to go back to a similar car to my Supra. Toyota has no plans to bring another Supra to market anytime soon. If I had to pick a car today, it would be a Nissan GTR. Since that is out of the budget, I would have to settle for the 370Z Nismo. LOL

We'll see what's available in 2 years. I will be in full mid-life crisis by then.

 

[Lessen]

A fullblown purpose built sports car is well out of my vision for quite some time. I just wish there were more offerings to choose from. Domestic doesn't offer jack.

 

[HPIguy]

Well, they need to make the rest of the car suited for high-performance road courses too, instead of just straight-line speed.

Uh, Corvettes have always been known for their handling, largely due to the fact they are setup with independent rear suspension instead of a live rear axle setup. Even the base model newer Vettes pull close to 1G on the skid pad. And they've dominated American Lemans racing for years with the C5R and C6R.

Looking at it from a different perspective... Traditionalists are probably pretty few and far between. I kinda think I'm one of them. Many folks will be sold on the performance advantage of newer technology. Face it, a small displacement V-8 that revs to 9400 is (from a unbiased performance point of view) is a better option than a large displacement V-8 that revs to 7600 and weights 80lbs. more. If they make about the same horsepower the smaller engine makes building the rest of car easier because there is more flexibility in design. But some people LOVE tradition but at the end of the day I think they are the minority. However, in an effort to keep those faithful as Chevy customers I'm sure they will still offer a big V-8 for those who may want it.

I find myself making this decision as well just not with traditional sports car. I love to drive as well and I want my next car to be something that actually has some balls and the handling to back it up. However, I have 2 kids under 6 and I NEED 4 doors to keep me sane. For the amount of money I can probably only realistically afford 1 of 2 cars. The Mitsubishi Evo X or the Subaru WRX STi. If you've read/watched/heard anything about the current offerings of these two cars you probably know that the consensus is that the Evo drives circles around the STi. Now I'm all about full blown performance but.... That Evo does NOT have 3-pedals (in it's top trim). That is a problem. Yes, I want to drive "the best car" I can afford but do I really want to sacrifice my fondness for tradition to do so?

Lessen, I'm all about technology to a point. Just like you mention that you can't have the Evo X MR in a stick shift, I don't want paddle shifters, and IMO it disconnects you from the overall driving experience. I like rowing through the gears myself, same as you. BTW, I have the pleasure of driving and Evo X GSR quite often, and it's truly an amazing car.

I prefer the larger V8 (if I Could afford a Vette that is) not based on any tech argument, but based on the fact that I prefer a TQ motor to a HP motor. A small displacement turbocharged engine will never make the TQ down low that a larger displacement naturally aspirated engine does. Not to mention, turbo charged engines require some special care (I've owned two) and suffer from some turbo lag no matter what. That doesn't mean that it's a bad design, or that one is better than the other, it's just all about what type of power delivery you like.

 

[SMaxxin]

. A small displacement turbocharged engine will never make the TQ down low that a larger displacement naturally aspirated engine does.

According to Ford thats not true....They claim their eco boost (twin turbo v6) truck puts down more torque at the low end than most big v8 trucks. While bragging about the Hemi in my truck a Ford rep pulled out some info on the eco boost engine and sure enough they claim more low end torque than my Hemi which is a beast!

 

[Rolex]

Vettes pull close to 1G on the skid pad.

1G is what we're in now, just sitting here. 2Gs double the load.

 

[SMaxxin]

Well, they need to make the rest of the car suited for high-performance road courses too, instead of just straight-line speed.

Very few cars can run with a Vette on a road caorse....Nothing in it's price rage can come close to it's handling!

 

[Lessen]

A small displacement turbocharged engine will never make the TQ down low that a larger displacement naturally aspirated engine does. Not to mention, turbo charged engines require some special care (I've owned two) and suffer from some turbo lag no matter what.

I have two points.

Let's not confuse torque at the flywheel with torque at the wheels. It is not always fair to judge two cars power performance based strictly on engine output. The transmission and final drives are just as important to the overall efficiency of power transfer. Just because you may have less torque at the flywheel doesn't mean you always have less torque at the wheels.

In this age of technology I honestly do not believe that turbo lag exists in any noticable amount in a performance car at the level we speak of. Turbo lag is an old problem in which technology and decades of R&D have nearly irradicated. It's almost to the point of being a non-issue anymore. So much though that IMO a supercharger has nearly zero gains over a turbo outside of simplicity but let me put a stop to the turbo vs. super debate right now because I know how derailed this thread will get

 

[hamz9561]

I would rather a have a larger less stressed engine than a higher strung and smaller turbo engine. A mid engine Corvette was tried back in the 60s by Zora Duntov. It was scrapped by GM as being too complicated for mass production.

 

[Lessen]

I can't say that I agree that just because an engine is larger in displacement that it's less stressed. As a matter of fact I'd say there are more blown engines by top Nascar(5.87L V-8 @ 9500rpm) teams than top F1 (2.4L V-8 @ 18000rpm) teams.

All motorsports teams push their equipment to the edge but a streetcar is engineered to be reliable as well as powerful. I would not be concerned about engine stresses in a road car. They can take well more than the factory ships them out with.

 

[HPIguy]

According to Ford thats not true....They claim their eco boost (twin turbo v6) truck puts down more torque at the low end than most big v8 trucks. While bragging about the Hemi in my truck a Ford rep pulled out some info on the eco boost engine and sure enough they claim more low end torque than my Hemi which is a beast!

That's true, but the ECO's are twin turbo'd. Maybe GM will go that route, I sure hope so, it would sound AWESOME!

I have two points.

Let's not confuse torque at the flywheel with torque at the wheels. It is not always fair to judge two cars power performance based strictly on engine output. The transmission and final drives are just as important to the overall efficiency of power transfer. Just because you may have less torque at the flywheel doesn't mean you always have less torque at the wheels.

In this age of technology I honestly do not believe that turbo lag exists in any noticable amount in a performance car at the level we speak of. Turbo lag is an old problem in which technology and decades of R&D have nearly irradicated. It's almost to the point of being a non-issue anymore. So much though that IMO a supercharger has nearly zero gains over a turbo outside of simplicity but let me put a stop to the turbo vs. super debate right now because I know how derailed this thread will get

That's a good point Lessen, modern transmissions can do wonders for sure. I'm not going to go down the SC vs. turbo road either, no point in it as you can do wonders with both these days. But, since you're looking, I will say the EVO has tons of lag. It's straight up gutless until you're in the boost, but then again, it's only a 2.0 liter four, so that's totally different and to be expected. Still an amazing car though.

 

[bgbdwlf2500]

America just isn't building cars like they used to. I've become a crazy fan of the UK version of Top Gear and I really like a lot of the cars they test. Unfortunately few are available here. I'd love to see the car scene in the US transform. But I don't suspect Americans will give up their pickups and SUV's. It's a shame, too. There are so many cool cars out there that we can't get a hold of. The Ford Focus RS. The Ford Falcon and Holden Maloo from Australia. I was happy to see the Fiat 500 brought to the states. I just dread domestic cars. Most are just cheesy and cheap. And now the Vette is going in the same direction.

i spent 6 months in Australia. The new GTO body style is 100% a Holden To be more precise a Commodore just not with 4 doors

The sad part these days is, diesel is where the power is at and the wave of the future. I damn near outran a WRX at 4200rpm at the drag strip and outweighed him by at least 2500 lbs... My hood was at his back doors when we crossed the line, he went home after that.

 

[Racer 1966]

I was never a fan of the Vette so I really don't care what they do with it but will someone explain what "jumping the shark" means? :shrug:

Lessen - It's really not a good comparison for NASCAR and F1 engines. NASCAR engines spend a much greater percentage of their time at peak rpm. That alone will be sufficient to cause more failures.

Turbo lag should not be a problem. Even back in the late 80's when I was working on them all the time,good tuners could eliminate it.

 

[Lessen]

True Randy. Indy engines aren't good either since they're somewha detuned. At any rate, engine size isn't a tell all IMO.

 

[2revo1maxx]

It's not the end of the world, they even said it will still have an optional bb available. These people build 8 and 9 second evos.....Right around the corner from me! [ame]http://youtu.be/-B-KkHqJsGM[/ame]

 

[Lessen]

Cool vid.

Anyways. At the end of the day, a performance vehicle (any product for that matter) needs to evolve to stay competitive. If you ask me I think a lot of the hoopla will fade and all the people who may not necessarily care for the concept of a small displacement V-8 will come to accept it as it will make the american sport car a better performer and competitor to the european rivals.

Chevy certainly would not be the first iconic sports car to stray from it's roots. Porsche did it years ago when they moved from their traditional air cooled engines to water cooling. That change created a big uproar in the fanbase as well.

 

[SteelCityNitro]

Being a vette owner myself, I'm torn between loving the idea and hating it. I think it's a great idea to be competitive with the European market, but being that I love a traditional V8, I hate to see them take that away from legacy of the corvette. If I'm not mistaking wasn't the Fiero supposed to be GM's answer to ferrari back in the 80's ? Look how that worked out for them.. lol, they weren't very good cars. I wont be buying any Corvettes any time soon.. but I will be curious to see what happens.

 

[bergoff]

The Fiero what a flop. 1 in 5 caught on fire. Lol.

 

[Candyman]

I was never a fan of the Vette so I really don't care what they do with it but will someone explain what "jumping the shark" means? :shrug:

"Jumping the shark" is a term derived from the later seasons of Happy Days. There was a short series of episodes where they went to Hollywood. During one episode Fonzie sets up some hoaky stunt to do a waterski jump over a small shark tank. It's generally believed that those episodes were the signal that Happy Days had run it's course and the series was through. Things just went downhill from there.

So "jumping the shark" is a term that means an entity has outlived it's usefulness. That it's time has come. On TV, that's usually about the time a TV show starts bringing in new characters as the original ones leave. Like on The Brady Bunch when cousin Oliver moved in.