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vbgagnon
RCTalk VIP
Dont waste your money, the gains (if any) will be very minimal and IMO these engines are sensitive enough to tune with out adding more variables.
vbgagnon
RCTalk VIP
Thats exactly what I'I'm saying. Spend your money upgrading something else.
Rush Evo man
Gone - bye bye.
yeh!
there right, wot car were u gonna put nos in anyway?
there right, wot car were u gonna put nos in anyway?
Actually, the NOS adds quite a bit of HP to these. But, it will also add extra strain on the engine and you will have to rebuild much sooner.
NOS will also make it harder to drive. When the NOS kicks in you will get a big power boost that will make your wheels spin or worse, tear up your diffs.
If you want it for the coolness factor of just saying that you have NOS on your car, then get it, but i would not put this on the main car that i drive, since you will have it ripped apart more than bashing.
I would just buy a bigger stronger engine, and everything that would apply to making it go faster.
Hope this helps.
David
NOS will also make it harder to drive. When the NOS kicks in you will get a big power boost that will make your wheels spin or worse, tear up your diffs.
If you want it for the coolness factor of just saying that you have NOS on your car, then get it, but i would not put this on the main car that i drive, since you will have it ripped apart more than bashing.
I would just buy a bigger stronger engine, and everything that would apply to making it go faster.
Hope this helps.
David
rocknbil
RCTalk Addict
dpk136: Do you have any concrete evidence to support this claim? How's your flame suit holding up, are you ready for what's about to come your way? 
The NOS issue has been going on for years now, debated, debunked, brought up again, debunked some more, and only recently has a device been build that actually works to some degree, and not enough to qualify the investment in money and weight. Got facts?
The NOS issue has been going on for years now, debated, debunked, brought up again, debunked some more, and only recently has a device been build that actually works to some degree, and not enough to qualify the investment in money and weight. Got facts?
Evidence to support what? that NOS works. Look at the simple facts...You add NOS, you get more O2 into the system, this in turn makes things faster. I don't really want to get into the physics of it. Ask any of the engineers.
And yes, when you put more pressure on things, they will break earlier than they would have running it normally. The same works for a normal car. If you don't have parts that were designed for it, the lifespan is decreased.
Search the internet for some videos of rc cars with NOS. You'll see what i mean about them being faster.
Do i have concrete evidence...yes, it's the laws of physics.
If you want to flame me, go ahead...but any scientist will tell you that i'm correct.
Would I ever buy one...No! I think they are a waste of money. You can put that money towards a bigger racing engine that will hold up a lot better under the stress.
So, lets go...FLAME ON!
And yes, when you put more pressure on things, they will break earlier than they would have running it normally. The same works for a normal car. If you don't have parts that were designed for it, the lifespan is decreased.
Search the internet for some videos of rc cars with NOS. You'll see what i mean about them being faster.
Do i have concrete evidence...yes, it's the laws of physics.
If you want to flame me, go ahead...but any scientist will tell you that i'm correct.
Would I ever buy one...No! I think they are a waste of money. You can put that money towards a bigger racing engine that will hold up a lot better under the stress.
So, lets go...FLAME ON!
rocknbil
RCTalk Addict
No, I'm not the flaming type. But "search of the Internet" only proves exactly the opposite: these things are completely worthless in reference to scale model cars. It comes up again and again. Had you attempted to do so, you would find this to be true.
Comparing RC NOS applications to NOS applications in full scale cars is like comparing our alcohol-based fuel to top fuel dragsters, simply because it's called "nitro fuel" does not make the concepts the same, it is like apples to oranges.
Your O2 argument will fall apart in a single paragraph. I can prove this with your own words, simply answer **ONE** question: do you know why nitromethane is used in our fuel? Explain that, correctly, and you will see why NOS is a waste of time in reference to nitro RC cars.
Now, let's see if this can continue as a DISCUSSION instead of another NOS pissing match.
Comparing RC NOS applications to NOS applications in full scale cars is like comparing our alcohol-based fuel to top fuel dragsters, simply because it's called "nitro fuel" does not make the concepts the same, it is like apples to oranges.
Your O2 argument will fall apart in a single paragraph. I can prove this with your own words, simply answer **ONE** question: do you know why nitromethane is used in our fuel? Explain that, correctly, and you will see why NOS is a waste of time in reference to nitro RC cars.
Now, let's see if this can continue as a DISCUSSION instead of another NOS pissing match.
4u2nv
Gone - bye bye.
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And yeah DPK you might be right, but the if there is any increase of any power is so minimal and the wear on the mill from it, just doesn't make it worthy. I personally just think its a gimmick to get ricer's into the rc scene. Looks like its working.
rocknbil
RCTalk Addict
OK, it has been over an hour since this topic took this turn, I can only assume you are off busily looking in all the wrong places (i.e., Gooling your mouse off) for articles to copy and paste from. I say wrong places because the Internet is the BEST place to gather erroneous info.
Again, my only intent on RC boards is to educate and assist hobbyists in understanding their engines, it is usually those without an educated answer that turn such discussions into a flame war.
Why is nitromethane added to our fuel?
The knee-jerk reaction to this is always "for more power" but the reasoning behind the power is usually what is misinterpreted. We can blame marketing for that, it is sold as "Nitro Fuel" but in reality it is alcohol fuel. Nitromethane is an additive.
To understand the answer you have to understand the nature of the chemicals involved. Methanol is the actual fuel, and is much more flammable than even gasoline, and WAY more flammable than nitromethane. Refer to any MSDS sheet on either chemical to verify this fact (Now THERE is an Internet resource you can rely on!) Methanol burns hot, and it burns fast. It has a very low flash point, and in its raw form is VERY dangerous.
Nitromethane, on the other hand, is barely more flammable than water, and it burns very slowly. It has a relatively low flash point and is generally a mild chemical unless dropped or compressed (again, see MSDS to confirm.) Drop a match into a puddle of pure nitro, it will sputter and go out. Hit the puddle with a hammer, and the quick compression will cause the nitromethane to explode and you will have a crater the size of a car.
The proof of slow burning is evidenced by the afterburn of top fuel dragsters, in which 100% nitro (or near 100%) is ignited by an electronic spark. The afterburn seen blowing from the exhaust pipe is excess fuel that simply doesn't have enough time to burin in the combustion chamber; upon hitting the fresh air at the pipe exit, the hot and atomized nitro bursts into flame.
The true value of nitro in our fuel is in it's chemical composition, CH3NO2, particularly the NO2, which represents nitrous oxide - two oxygen molecules bonded together in the nitromethane molecule.
I think we can agree that three things are required to turn an engine: compression, fuel and oxygen in the correct proportion, and a spark to get it burning. For glow engines, the correct proportion of fuel and oxygen is extremely critical so that the glow plug continues to glow (so critical, in fact, that it eludes a large percentage of our hobbyists, see posts on most RC forums. )
Now what if, in your own words,
If you can get more oxygen molecules in the same amount of space, you could also introduce more FUEL, providing a bigger burst of power on combustion, correct?
The infusion of free oxygen molecules into the fuel mixture is the primary purpose of nitro in RC fuel, and is also the largest source of the added power derived from using it as an additive. The additional power that is released from the burning nitro also helps, but remember the nitromethane added is very small, usually 20% of the total volume, so the "bang" you get from the actual burning of the nitro is actually a much smaller contribution than you think. Most of your power burst comes from the ability to add more fuel because there are more oxygen molecules present than would be possible under normal atmospheric conditions.
Threshold. This is the word I use to define how much nitro you can add before this effect begins to drop off. Remember that nitro burns much slower than alcohol. At a certain point, if the conditions are not correct, the excess nitromethane actually begins to reduce performance because it is dousing out the spark and most of this excess blows right out the pipe. This threshold is approximately 25-30% for most unmodified engines. So if you are using fuels above 30% nitro, you're probably suffering performance unless you are good at tweaking engines and altering the compression ratio with shims (which I am not.) To make use of fuel above 25-30%, you really need to make alterations to the compression ratio.
So Why won't an NOS system work on an RC?
Because the nitromethane has already added as many oxygen molecules to the conbustion chamber as it can handle. Once yo have reached the "nitro threshold" for any given eingine, you will see no additional power produced if you attempt to add No2 via some external means.
A personal note: In my opinion, the simple workings of an RC engine are already too complex for the average hobbyist. As I said, the tuning "sweet spot" is elusive to a very large percentage of hobbyists, most of them look to mechanical or fuel issues when the problem is simple inability to tune. I would say that 95% of Internet post entitled "Won't Start", "Cuts Out," "Won't Run," or other problems with simply keeping an engine running are not related to mechanical issues, "air leaks" (my God, my personal favorite,) or fuel issues, they are simple tuning issues.
Unfortunately, the same hobbyists that have these kinds of problems are the same ones drawn to these glitzy make-yer-car-go-fast add-ons: NOS, Boost Bottles, Turbochargers. If you can't get a car to run stock, you're REALLY going to have trouble if you put something on it that messes with the way it runs!
Again, my only intent on RC boards is to educate and assist hobbyists in understanding their engines, it is usually those without an educated answer that turn such discussions into a flame war.
Why is nitromethane added to our fuel?
The knee-jerk reaction to this is always "for more power" but the reasoning behind the power is usually what is misinterpreted. We can blame marketing for that, it is sold as "Nitro Fuel" but in reality it is alcohol fuel. Nitromethane is an additive.
To understand the answer you have to understand the nature of the chemicals involved. Methanol is the actual fuel, and is much more flammable than even gasoline, and WAY more flammable than nitromethane. Refer to any MSDS sheet on either chemical to verify this fact (Now THERE is an Internet resource you can rely on!) Methanol burns hot, and it burns fast. It has a very low flash point, and in its raw form is VERY dangerous.
Nitromethane, on the other hand, is barely more flammable than water, and it burns very slowly. It has a relatively low flash point and is generally a mild chemical unless dropped or compressed (again, see MSDS to confirm.) Drop a match into a puddle of pure nitro, it will sputter and go out. Hit the puddle with a hammer, and the quick compression will cause the nitromethane to explode and you will have a crater the size of a car.
The proof of slow burning is evidenced by the afterburn of top fuel dragsters, in which 100% nitro (or near 100%) is ignited by an electronic spark. The afterburn seen blowing from the exhaust pipe is excess fuel that simply doesn't have enough time to burin in the combustion chamber; upon hitting the fresh air at the pipe exit, the hot and atomized nitro bursts into flame.
The true value of nitro in our fuel is in it's chemical composition, CH3NO2, particularly the NO2, which represents nitrous oxide - two oxygen molecules bonded together in the nitromethane molecule.
I think we can agree that three things are required to turn an engine: compression, fuel and oxygen in the correct proportion, and a spark to get it burning. For glow engines, the correct proportion of fuel and oxygen is extremely critical so that the glow plug continues to glow (so critical, in fact, that it eludes a large percentage of our hobbyists, see posts on most RC forums.
) Now what if, in your own words,
?
If you can get more oxygen molecules in the same amount of space, you could also introduce more FUEL, providing a bigger burst of power on combustion, correct?
The infusion of free oxygen molecules into the fuel mixture is the primary purpose of nitro in RC fuel, and is also the largest source of the added power derived from using it as an additive. The additional power that is released from the burning nitro also helps, but remember the nitromethane added is very small, usually 20% of the total volume, so the "bang" you get from the actual burning of the nitro is actually a much smaller contribution than you think. Most of your power burst comes from the ability to add more fuel because there are more oxygen molecules present than would be possible under normal atmospheric conditions.
Threshold. This is the word I use to define how much nitro you can add before this effect begins to drop off. Remember that nitro burns much slower than alcohol. At a certain point, if the conditions are not correct, the excess nitromethane actually begins to reduce performance because it is dousing out the spark and most of this excess blows right out the pipe. This threshold is approximately 25-30% for most unmodified engines. So if you are using fuels above 30% nitro, you're probably suffering performance unless you are good at tweaking engines and altering the compression ratio with shims (which I am not.) To make use of fuel above 25-30%, you really need to make alterations to the compression ratio.
So Why won't an NOS system work on an RC?
Because the nitromethane has already added as many oxygen molecules to the conbustion chamber as it can handle. Once yo have reached the "nitro threshold" for any given eingine, you will see no additional power produced if you attempt to add No2 via some external means.
A personal note: In my opinion, the simple workings of an RC engine are already too complex for the average hobbyist. As I said, the tuning "sweet spot" is elusive to a very large percentage of hobbyists, most of them look to mechanical or fuel issues when the problem is simple inability to tune. I would say that 95% of Internet post entitled "Won't Start", "Cuts Out," "Won't Run," or other problems with simply keeping an engine running are not related to mechanical issues, "air leaks" (my God, my personal favorite
,) or fuel issues, they are simple tuning issues. Unfortunately, the same hobbyists that have these kinds of problems are the same ones drawn to these glitzy make-yer-car-go-fast add-ons: NOS, Boost Bottles, Turbochargers. If you can't get a car to run stock, you're REALLY going to have trouble if you put something on it that messes with the way it runs!
does no body listen. I said nothing about comparisons with a car...i said, just as in a normal car items wear faster. N2O will add more oxygen...and this in turn, makes your car run a little leaner, it would just be like leaning out your HSN. It will run faster. I'm also saying they are pointless, i'm just backing up the point that yes it will go faster...but its not worth the cost (money, parts).
For your point about the nitromethane
Anyways...back on topic...the point of all this is NOS is not good for nitro engines, it breaks stuff and is not worth the increase in speed (you may disagree with the speed factor). So just don't buy it. Waste your money somewhere else.
David
For your point about the nitromethane
The correct symbol is N2O...not NO2, that would be nitrogen dioxide. So, the facts that you have are wrong anyways.
Anyways...back on topic...the point of all this is NOS is not good for nitro engines, it breaks stuff and is not worth the increase in speed (you may disagree with the speed factor). So just don't buy it. Waste your money somewhere else.
David
rocknbil
RCTalk Addict
dpk136 said:
At least I HAVE facts instead of talking out of my . . . . .
NO2 represents one nitrogen atom and two bonded oxygen atoms within the nitromethane molecule.
Want another fact? Nah, didn't think so.
FALSE. You didn't read a single thing, did you? If you add more OXYGEN, you can now add proportionately more FUEL, producing more POWER. Does that sound like "leaner" to you?
Thank you for the "discussion." It was a total waste of time.
sweetdiesel
aka SouRGassssssss
Supporter
XRC did a test on the NX express system. It did produce considerable power gains but for only a second or two. Also each cartridge only lasts a few blasts before it runs out.
Is it worth putting in your RC? Depends on the application. For drag racing it would be nice. For everything else, it would be a useless weight increasing item.
Is it worth putting in your RC? Depends on the application. For drag racing it would be nice. For everything else, it would be a useless weight increasing item.
NOS is cool!:whistle:
1500valk
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I, for one, know that these systems work. For instance, I put my Savage SS powered with a Cox .049 engine on a dyno, and after hitting the NOS it made nearly 20 horsepower at just 1000 rpm. With a bad glow plug, and running pure rubbing alcohol and canola oil for fuel. I had video, but my wife's bird ate it.
Candyman
'Cuse is in the house!
Supporter
Where's cooperdillon when you need him?
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