Rustler 2wd carpet racing tuning tips

[jojobeans]

I wanted to give another class a go at my local track and really enjoyed watching the stadium trucks... class isn't that big either, so they could use the extra drivers. I figured this would be a good opportunity to handicap myself and force me to become a better driver since my Tekno EB410.2 pretty much drives itself. I decided on a 2wd rustler and threw a HobbyWing 13.5t combo in it along with a cheapie high speed servo from eBay.... the one car that everyone screams not to buy for racing. Something that will actually take skill to drive fast... I'm not looking to win races, I'm just looking for a challenge in both driving and the tuning department so I can get good at setting up a car.

First and foremost the track conditions are reclaimed carpet of various piles and it's laid out on a gravel pad, so it's not exactly smooth either. Does anyone have experience with running a Rustler on similar tracks and what have you done to improve its handling? Biggest problem I have right now is traction rolling... I've cut down on it a lot with changes to the geometry, but I'm fairly new to shock tuning and I feel that's the next step. Only thing I've done so far shock wise is put some 50wt fluid in the rear shock, which cut down on the traction rolling quite a bit and made the car handle the doubles without bucking itself off the track. But it'll still roll it if I push hard into the corners. Springs are all stock with zero preload spacers and the ride height is way too high compared to the other stadium trucks at the track... it almost feels like I need to run stiffer springs as there is a lot of body roll, but I fear that will raise the ride height to the point I'll be right back at square one. I'm sure the answer is obvious, I'm just overlooking it... any pointers from some experienced racers? A good starting point for spring rate?


"Upgrades" that I have done:
- Slash 2wd rear arms for some much needed rear toe.
- I got a set of tires that have been working on the track for everyone else.
- Adjustable links, I have just a little bit of negative camber in the rear and I've set the front toe out 1-2 degrees. Steering has improved dramatically and it doesn't feel like I'm driving a dump truck through the track anymore.
- I have some CF towers on order so I can actually get some mounting points for the shocks as well.

 

[tntpoof]

Yes I do.. went to a local carpet track .many years ago (30). then went to a Local hobbystore . was introduced to a guy who ran at track . he sold me a rusty with a few hopups. took to track. I never was near getting into A main. took truck back to store then purchased 3 XXXTs never looked at a rusty to race on carpet again.we ran 21turn brushed 6 cell max.. 2 weeks later I was in A main.my advice is get another make of truck . there's nothing you can do than will make you competitive on carpet

 

[DavidB1126]

I raced my rustler on carpet before, once. I ran it with the 2WD 17.5 Buggies for 1 club race night as we really didn't do stadium trucks.

Mid Motor converting it will definitely help. Reference @luke66 build thread. I am In the process if MM converting mine. But Id like to stick with rear motor due to having a wheelie bar in the rear. I don't have a carpet track near me anymore so mainly I will be doing indoor dirt and outdoor dirt tracks this summer.

Turning my 2wd Rustler into a Bandit to race stock 2wd buggy? Or keep it as a stadium truck?
David's Slash 2wd and Rustler 2wd MM (Mid Motor) Conversions
My Rustler 2wd build 2.0

In both qualifiers, I got last. I did not make the main as I broke.
That race night I had issues with the shock tower screw backing out. I also had radio signal issues (my fault for going with a china radio) and I had transponder issues as my mounting setup for it was not ideal.

For tires, I ran fuzz bite rears and swagger fronts. I ran DE Racing T4.1 wheels with it. Some prefer pin downs/swaggers. Or proline prisims.

I was running 50wt shock oil in the front and the stock rear (as I had to use a spare set of stock shocks to get my car running)

ride height was super high and I had it the lowest I could. Getting it lower and gluing the sidewalls would be more ideal for less traction rolling / twitchy-ness

Video from that race night (not that good as how I have my phone setup on my head strap mount is weird and I couldn't get it to point down to actually get the car in view)

My stats from that race night:
Qual 1: https://rcundergroundarena.liverc.com/results/?p=view_race_result&id=4627353
Qual 2: https://rcundergroundarena.liverc.com/results/?p=view_race_result&id=4627565
B Main: https://rcundergroundarena.liverc.com/results/?p=view_race_result&id=4627705

I haven't been all out and tuning my cars for the track. I just try to keep it as is. Racing a Traxxas 2wd against modern mid Motor race trucks is too much money and time and effort for me at least. You are better off getting a used T6.2 or getting a T6.4 get for 2WD Stadium Truck. Or a Tekno ET410.2 or Xray XT4 if for 4WD Stadium Truck (or Mini Truggy)

@bill_delong said to me. It's a complete waste of time. and I agree. You really won't get the car feeling and driving right. Like I said above, it would be better getting a comp race truck kit. Or get a older/used one to start out.

 

[bill_delong]

Talk about taking a knife to a gunfight...

IF (and that's a big laugh) I were forced to run a Rusty today, I'd look very closely at everything TheJANG did here as my starting point:

 

[jojobeans]

Yes I do.. went to a local carpet track .many years ago (30). then went to a Local hobbystore . was introduced to a guy who ran at track . he sold me a rusty with a few hopups. took to track. I never was near getting into A main. took truck back to store then purchased 3 XXXTs never looked at a rusty to race on carpet again.we ran 21turn brushed 6 cell max.. 2 weeks later I was in A main.my advice is get another make of truck . there's nothing you can do than will make you competitive on carpet

My goal isn’t to be competitive. I have a Tekno 4wd kit with full Tekin electronics to be competitive with… The purpose of the rustler is to force me into becoming a better driver, get better at setting a car up and just to have a little bit of cheap fun. If I don’t end up in the A-Main, that’s fine… I’m not really looking to get there with this thing. I fully understand it’s not going to be competitive or handle nearly as good as a proper race kit. I’m not expecting it to…

I raced my rustler on carpet before, once. I ran it with the 2WD 17.5 Buggies for 1 club race night as we really didn't do stadium trucks.

Mid Motor converting it will definitely help. Reference @luke66 build thread. I am In the process if MM converting mine. But Id like to stick with rear motor due to having a wheelie bar in the rear. I don't have a carpet track near me anymore so mainly I will be doing indoor dirt and outdoor dirt tracks this summer.

Turning my 2wd Rustler into a Bandit to race stock 2wd buggy? Or keep it as a stadium truck?
David's Slash 2wd and Rustler 2wd MM (Mid Motor) Conversions
My Rustler 2wd build 2.0

In both qualifiers, I got last. I did not make the main as I broke.
That race night I had issues with the shock tower screw backing out. I also had radio signal issues (my fault for going with a china radio) and I had transponder issues as my mounting setup for it was not ideal.

For tires, I ran fuzz bite rears and swagger fronts. I ran DE Racing T4.1 wheels with it. Some prefer pin downs/swaggers. Or proline prisims.

I was running 50wt shock oil in the front and the stock rear (as I had to use a spare set of stock shocks to get my car running)

ride height was super high and I had it the lowest I could. Getting it lower and gluing the sidewalls would be more ideal for less traction rolling / twitchy-ness

Video from that race night (not that good as how I have my phone setup on my head strap mount is weird and I couldn't get it to point down to actually get the car in view)

My stats from that race night:
Qual 1: https://rcundergroundarena.liverc.com/results/?p=view_race_result&id=4627353
Qual 2: https://rcundergroundarena.liverc.com/results/?p=view_race_result&id=4627565
B Main: https://rcundergroundarena.liverc.com/results/?p=view_race_result&id=4627705

I haven't been all out and tuning my cars for the track. I just try to keep it as is. Racing a Traxxas 2wd against modern mid Motor race trucks is too much money and time and effort for me at least. You are better off getting a used T6.2 or getting a T6.4 get for 2WD Stadium Truck. Or a Tekno ET410.2 or Xray XT4 if for 4WD Stadium Truck (or Mini Truggy)

@bill_delong said to me. It's a complete waste of time. and I agree. You really won't get the car feeling and driving right. Like I said above, it would be better getting a comp race truck kit. Or get a older/used one to start out.

This is pretty much what I was looking for. As I said in another reply, I’m not looking to be Uber competitive. It’s just a fun little project that I don’t intend to spend a whole lot of money on. Season is almost over and this thing will likely get out on basher duty when the big outdoor track opens up this summer and I can bust out the 1/8 scales. No big sense in spending another $1k on a race kit that I’m realistically only going to get a couple months out of… assuming they even keep the stadium truck class since there doesn’t appear to be a whole lot of drivers. Next indoor racing season, I’ll likely end up upgrading to something like an associated kit if they end up keeping the class around and the rustler will get retired to a basher.

I appreciate the links to the build threads!

 

[bill_delong]

… The purpose of the rustler is to force me into becoming a better driver, get better at setting a car up ...

I've seen claims to this statement often where folks believe something to the effect that "2WD will make you a better driver" and I couldn't disagree more.

I started out with 2WD simply because I was told that it would make me a "better driver". I would spend close to 5 years of club racing before I got my first 4WD SCT around 2015 and my only regret was not getting into 4WD sooner! What I found was the exact opposite in that 4WD made me a better driver because it taught me how to drift a car on power and drive in ways that you simply can't do with a 2WD. In the 2WD classes, I struggled to make the A Main but in 4WD SCT, I quickly became one of the pack leaders, beating many of same drivers who were much better than me in the 2WD classes. What I started to learn was that it was the design geometry and engineering that was critical for 2WD. I went from cheap rebranded cars based on discontinued designs to investing in the latest version 2WD that TLR had to offer at the time and guess what, I started winning races instead of just hoping to make the A Main! I still struggled to get the 2WD to do what I wanted out of it and yes, learning car setup was very important, but the tuning windows for modern designs are so far away from what's available from the aged designs that there is no comparison.

Fact is that I became a faster driver from everything I learned racing 4WD and then applied those techniques into 2WD.

Running a dated 2WD platform will not make you a better driver and will not teach you anything on setup because the tuning window just isn't there.

Unless you're a mechanical engineer and know how to make your own custom parts, then your time will be much better served running a current generation 2WD kit.

If you insist on making your own custom parts, then I would encourage you to invest in a CNC and this will be far more expensive and time consuming than simply buying a modern kit:

• Desktop CNC Milling for RC

*** I am not a pro level driver, but I am a competitive club racer and have found it extremely useful to fabricate custom parts for my cars to address design flaws and provide tuning options that aren't available anywhere else.

*** not trying to be mean, but driving a Rusty (or any other dated design) on the track against modern geometry is no different that slapping wheels on a turd and driving that around the track, been there done that

 

[jojobeans]

I've seen claims to this statement often where folks believe something to the effect that "2WD will make you a better driver" and I couldn't disagree more.

I started out with 2WD simply because I was told that it would make me a "better driver". I would spend close to 5 years of club racing before I got my first 4WD SCT around 2015 and my only regret was not getting into 4WD sooner! What I found was the exact opposite in that 4WD made me a better driver because it taught me how to drift a car on power and drive in ways that you simply can't do with a 2WD. In the 2WD classes, I struggled to make the A Main but in 4WD SCT, I quickly became one of the pack leaders, beating many of same drivers who were much better than me in the 2WD classes. What I started to learn was that it was the design geometry and engineering that was critical for 2WD. I went from cheap rebranded cars based on discontinued designs to investing in the latest version 2WD that TLR had to offer at the time and guess what, I started winning races instead of just hoping to make the A Main! I still struggled to get the 2WD to do what I wanted out of it and yes, learning car setup was very important, but the tuning windows for modern designs are so far away from what's available from the aged designs that there is no comparison.

Fact is that I became a faster driver from everything I learned racing 4WD and then applied those techniques into 2WD.

Running a dated 2WD platform will not make you a better driver and will not teach you anything on setup because the tuning window just isn't there.

Unless you're a mechanical engineer and know how to make your own custom parts, then your time will be much better served running a current generation 2WD kit.

If you insist on making your own custom parts, then I would encourage you to invest in a CNC and this will be far more expensive and time consuming than simply buying a modern kit:

• Desktop CNC Milling for RC

*** I am not a pro level driver, but I am a competitive club racer and have found it extremely useful to fabricate custom parts for my cars to address design flaws and provide tuning options that aren't available anywhere else.

*** not trying to be mean, but driving a Rusty (or any other dated design) on the track against modern geometry is no different that slapping wheels on a turd and driving that around the track, been there done that

I’m not opposed to making custom parts. I’m not even really trying to race competitively at this point and push comes to shove I can run in the open class with all the other 2wd HCG slash’s, bandits, WL toys, etc. I love my Tekno and I can push that thing incredibly hard, especially in corners and like you said, it likes to be under power whereas the rustler does not. I don’t think the 2wd aspect is going to make me a better driver, I think the piss poor handling characteristic are gonna make me slow down, learn better lines and get more consistent instead of hot dogging around a track with a car that handles like it’s on railroad tracks and it couldn’t care less what lines I pick. It’s also just fun, I’m still gonna run the Tekno and practice with it and continue adjusting and striving for better lap times. The rustler is not my only kit to race with and it’s certainly not going to be my primary car.

Not to sound like a broke record… I know this is a horrible platform for racing, even in 1994 when it came out it wasn’t good. I don’t need to be told by everyone and their mother, I knew that when I walked into the LHS and laughed about it with my buddy in the way home. I’ve been in the hobby for over a decade at this point and have/had tons of cars from various manufacturers. This is just for shits and giggles, a fun little project to see how far a rustler can be pushed for the sake of saying I did it while hopefully learning something along the way since I’ve never had a track local to me to actually tune suspension. I don’t expect, nor do I intend to keep up with the rc10t6’s. This is purely for my own amusement. It’s terrible on the track, but that’s kind of the point and it’s so poorly setup, that I can actually visually see changes in handling when I adjust something, which isn’t so easy on the Tekno. I’ve learned more in 3 days in regards to suspension tuning than I have in 2 months running the Tekno. An associated stadium truck is on the docket for next season… i don’t plan on competitively racing a Rustler. It’s just for funsies and a learning experience… I also won’t be stuck with a car I can’t race if they decide to not keep a stadium truck class around.

I'm assuming you’re the same bill from UltimateRC forums before they closed down?

 

[bill_delong]

I'm assuming you’re the same bill from UltimateRC forums before they closed down?

Yes sir, that's me!

Most notable thing for me was extending Project21:

• Project 21 - OFNA (Hong Nor) Ravager + Mutilator to MT conversion

 

[Panko75]

This is pretty much what I was looking for. As I said in another reply, I’m not looking to be Uber competitive. It’s just a fun little project that I don’t intend to spend a whole lot of money on.

I think your current upgrades are fine enough if you're just running the Rustler for fun, just run it and get practice in. That'll do more for your skills than shopping for upgrades.

The only upgrades that I would seriously consider are a set of aluminum bellcranks, and STRC hinge pins (to replace the ridiculously dated stock setup).

I'm not a fan of the stock transmission design (again dated, need to split to get to the diff, plastic motor mount), but it will get the job done.

Be careful of where you install RPM parts, they're more flexible which is good for bashing, less so handling.

 

[jojobeans]

I think your current upgrades are fine enough if you're just running the Rustler for fun, just run it and get practice in. That'll do more for your skills than shopping for upgrades.

The only upgrades that I would seriously consider are a set of aluminum bellcranks, and STRC hinge pins (to replace the ridiculously dated stock setup).

I'm not a fan of the stock transmission design (again dated, need to split to get to the diff, plastic motor mount), but it will get the job done.

Be careful of where you install RPM parts, they're more flexible which is good for bashing, less so handling.

I had saw the Magnum 272r transmission now which adds a sealed diff and makes the differential accessible from the bottom, but that's not an upgrade I want to or plan to do as its not really necessary at this point. I'm not looking to dump a ton of money into this thing, I just want to get it to the point I can at least get around the track consistently without rolling it in every corner. I'm hoping the shock towers I have on the way will remedy that since there's more mounting options for the shocks and turnbuckles so I can lower the roll center some more and drop the ride height. I was hoping for some custom with a K mods people have done... I'm not opposed to making parts from delrin since it's relatively cheap and easy to work with. I'm not interested in throwing hundreds of dollars in bling, I think for the most part I have my bases covered for needed mods to get it to handle half way decent, relatively speaking of course. 90% of the parts I added to it came from the spare parts bin, so I'm realistically less than $300 into it including the price of the car.

Most I'll do for durability is some aluminum C-hubs to fix the common problem with the stock ones cracking and bending the king pin. Stock bell crank is giving me plenty of steering with how the track is set up and I'll consider the STRC if/when the stock one starts to get some wear and excess play. It's not a high speed track, so durability really isn't a big concern of mine. The stock screw pins and the Phillips hardware is enraging in 2024... Traxxas has made quite a few updates to the rustler platform recently(new transmission option, lower CG chassis, etc), it just stinks they couldn't update the hardware to somthing more modern.

Yes sir, that's me!

Most notable thing for me was extending Project21:

• Project 21 - OFNA (Hong Nor) Ravager + Mutilator to MT conversion

That is somthing I haven't seen in a very long time! I wish Jang would've kept the site up or at least sold the domain to someone so they sit could've been kept up. So much valuable information that's just lost now, but I understand why he did it and can't really fault him. I'm glad you're keeping the lineage going! I used to frequent those forums a lot and between you, tamiyafier, Jang and a few others, I owe everything I know now to all the knowledge you guys shared.

 

[bill_delong]

That is somthing I haven't seen in a very long time! I wish Jang would've kept the site up or at least sold the domain to someone so they sit could've been kept up. So much valuable information that's just lost now, but I understand why he did it and can't really fault him. I'm glad you're keeping the lineage going! I used to frequent those forums a lot and between you, tamiyafier, Jang and a few others, I owe everything I know now to all the knowledge you guys shared.

Much appreciated for the kind thoughts, I recall your name as well, lots of great people in the URC days for sure!

Super grateful TheJANG kept his YouTube channel even though he's no longer getting monetization on it anymore, so there's a silver lining