New HPI Savage X 4.6

[gt2racespec]

looks like some serous power

 

[gablett]

So got to finally drive it like I stole it last night for about an hour. This engine is not super easy to tune. I felt like I was either slightly rich or slightly lean most of the time. I kept the fuel tank over half full the whole time just so I could get a good tune. Off the line it seemed to lack a little unless I let it sit for a second, and then a little smoke would come out of the exhaust at idle then it would basically flip itself over off the line. So I dont know the story on that. Maybe my HSN is lean and then it gets a little more fuel idling for a second on the LSN and then accelerates better. But I'm getting good smoke and acceleration at WOT it just lacks off the line power if I stay on it. Temps were good, right about 240-250. I didnt get much time to run it and I'm sure it will settle in with more fuel so Ill keep trying to get it right.

Ran into an issue early on. Made a corner and then only the front wheels worked. I had taken the diffs apart and done 50k fluid so I thought oh crap I did something wrong, so I took that apart and it was fine. Turns out it was that little screw/pin that goes through the driveshaft. When I first bought this someone on another forum said to but a bag of those pins cuz you will need them. I owe him a beer, saved my night as I had a package of them. The pin was gone, not broken. I think it got missed on loctite. All the more reason for everyone to check all their screws on RTRs. So got that back in and kept ripping.

I think the 45 weight shock oil might be a little heavy except for extreme jumping. I lll see how it does when I start making it fly. Maybe I will like it more then.

The motor screams. This thing makes so much power even with my terrible tuning abilities. I wish someone with some serious know how would just show me once, this is how its supposed to run and then I could mimic it from then on. It so tough reading something or watching a video and trying to figure out what I need to do. But Ill keep trying. I'm not trying to squeeze out every ounce, but what I'm after is consistency and I like wheelies, so I like that off the line power. So once I get that figured out, Ill be happy.

So the upgrade suspension kit will be here today as well as the throttle mix arm, so I will get those installed and I think thats it for a while. I think I'm gonna run this season on this LRP and get good with it and then Ill probably order a CRE Nova this winter and do a complete winter tear down and rebuild with the new motor. I've gotta find time in this as well to get my high compression piston in my Outlaw 525 quad as well. Why is it when we have x power, we always want x+1?

 

[Nitro Nerd]

Did u thread lock the pin? I thread lock mine and have yet to loose one.

Also, you noted tuning over half full tank. How many tanks are u running before touching needles? What does idle do after WOT ? Have u laid dow. Your idle? Sounds like u might need to lean your LSN them lay down your idle ad then fatten the top end a bit. Stay patient...you'll get it.

 

[gablett]

Did u thread lock the pin? I thread lock mine and have yet to loose one.

Also, you noted tuning over half full tank. How many tanks are u running before touching needles? What does idle do after WOT ? Have u laid dow. Your idle? Sounds like u might need to lean your LSN them lay down your idle ad then fatten the top end a bit. Stay patient...you'll get it.

Yes I did. So hopefully it will stay put this time.

I ran 7 tanks through during break in. The last 2 tanks I started leaning a bit and getting on it more in small bursts. As for tuning. I run several passes until I check the head and it is at a normal steady temp. Maybe I was still doing it to early?

After WOT it pretty much drops back to normal right away. I'm thinking that means it might be rich? It should hang a little right? My idle is pretty good. I set the gap to the width of a standard paper clip. So I'm thinking I might be rich everywhere. I dont mind being a little rich as long as I get the performance I feel I should. I also am using a gallon of 20% Traxxas fuel I got a good deal on. Wanted to break in with it since I heard it has a lot of oil. I have a case of Torco 20%, maybe I should switch to that now for performance tuning since it seems I read of a lot of people having troubles with Traxxas fuel.

So on a side note I had 2 packages to be delivered to me today from UPS. 1 was fuel 1 was the throttle mix arm and the suspension upgrade kit. Well the fuel was delivered but no kit. They were both processed through the same sorting facility at the same time. 1 left and 1 didnt. Tracking still says on time but obviously its not. Frustrated. Now I have no idea what the deal is and neither does the local UPS guy.

One other observation is the 50k diff fluid. Really like the effects of that. Definitely be using that in the future. Evens out traction greatly and it cheap and easy.

 

[Nitro Nerd]

Yes I did. So hopefully it will stay put this time.

I ran 7 tanks through during break in. The last 2 tanks I started leaning a bit and getting on it more in small bursts. As for tuning. I run several passes until I check the head and it is at a normal steady temp. Maybe I was still doing it to early?

After WOT it pretty much drops back to normal right away. I'm thinking that means it might be rich? It should hang a little right? My idle is pretty good. I set the gap to the width of a standard paper clip. So I'm thinking I might be rich everywhere. I dont mind being a little rich as long as I get the performance I feel I should. I also am using a gallon of 20% Traxxas fuel I got a good deal on. Wanted to break in with it since I heard it has a lot of oil. I have a case of Torco 20%, maybe I should switch to that now for performance tuning since it seems I read of a lot of people having troubles with Traxxas fuel.

So on a side note I had 2 packages to be delivered to me today from UPS. 1 was fuel 1 was the throttle mix arm and the suspension upgrade kit. Well the fuel was delivered but no kit. They were both processed through the same sorting facility at the same time. 1 left and 1 didnt. Tracking still says on time but obviously its not. Frustrated. Now I have no idea what the deal is and neither does the local UPS guy.

One other observation is the 50k diff fluid. Really like the effects of that. Definitely be using that in the future. Evens out traction greatly and it cheap and easy.

I don't know about LRP engines...but I can tell you one of the biggest tuning mistakes I used to make was tuning too early. I've learned that some engines require more run-time to heat saturate than other. With TVPs in MT seems a bit longer. Now I don't even touch a needle until after a few tanks of hard driving...but again it depends on your engine/vehicle.

To answer your question...it should drop immediately to idle, not hang a little bit. If your RPMs are carrying on...often it is your HSN too rich. it should be like a zipper (or that 'wee-wee') I keep referencing. ;-)

Perhaps I'm slow, but it took me well over a year to even KNOW what a good tune is. I used to think it was just the engines then learned 'nope...it''s the guys WITH the engines'. Understand, I'm not talking about just s tune to keep an engine running nicely, but instead a full-on race tune. That's what is very challenging..certainly for me.

I will tell anyone that will listen...the #1 thing I've learned about tuning is proper idle gap/LSN. I used to hear that a lot but not pay much attention...but once I started really listening to my idle after WOT....leaning/laying down, etc....wow--it works! ;-)

So the best way I can explain it... first you have to know what a good tune is. What to listen for, etc. Often people think they know what a spot-on race tune is, the biggest learning curve is just that...knowing what listen for. Certainly in my experience. Again, I'm still learning all this myself. There are guys on here like NitroJedi whom I'd ask to chime in if I am off in any way here as they are the real pros at this. I hope this helps some. As noted patience is so important (another tough lesson I learned). That...and don't settle. Complacency is a bad thing in this hobby.

Below are some videos that helped me a WHOLE lot
He's talking about one of those 'Italian, bump-box, whatever engines'-but still insightful
http://www.neobuggy.net/2009/11/15/7278/

General tuning by some good ol Amerucuns! ;-)

 

[gt2racespec]

Comparing a traxxs engine against lrp or rossi is like saying a good running goped would out run a
bad running motogp race bike. Lol just saying .

 

[Alexander_0_1]

I have to wonder about this^^

Don't SBs reach a higher RPM?, that being said a traxxas engine could be as fast or faster than an BB, it would have to work harder of course, causing the internals to be more at risk, but I think it's possible. I feel the same about torque, a traxxas 3.3, would just have work harder.

Its just to bad, I dont have a nitro powered revo to test this with a pull-off.

 

[gablett]

Ugh, well it seems good old UPS has lost the package. They are looking for it now. And the shipper insured $200 worth of parts for $100. Wonderful day......

 

[nitrojedi]

rich mixture does not make the idle hang........... if anything its the opposite...a lean mixture or too much idle gap will make the idle hang............ too rich never does this.....too rich makes them stall, not idle up

 

[bobaloohoo]

rich mixture does not make the idle hang........... if anything its the opposite...a lean mixture or too much idle gap will make the idle hang............ too rich never does this.....too rich makes them stall, not idle up

yeah i think he mis-informed himself

 

[gablett]

rich mixture does not make the idle hang........... if anything its the opposite...a lean mixture or too much idle gap will make the idle hang............ too rich never does this.....too rich makes them stall, not idle up

I guess that makes more sense. I gotta stop reading so much crap online. You get so many conflicting ideas. Some say do the LSN first on the stand, then do the HSN. Some say the oppositte. Some say tune on temp others on smoke, yet others on RPM performance. Some say set the idle gap at a specific space and tune everything else from there. Confusing. I wish an expert would come to my house, tune it, let me see what it sounds like and go from there.

 

[gablett]

So get this. Ups brings my package from California to a town in Michigan that is less than 3 hours from my front door. It goes 2 days with no status update and is never delivered. I call them and they start an investigation. They find the package a few hours later at the airport in Dallas Texas. I check the status and it says it wont be delivered until Tuesday of next week. So they lose my package and now I have to wait a week more for it? So I call them and they say sorry there is nothing we can do, thats how long it takes since it was originally sent ground thats all we can do. But mind you it got from here to Dallas in 2 days. Its takes 4 to bring it back? Thats fantastic.

 

[Nitro Nerd]

yeah i think he mis-informed himself

Or not properly articulated/read. Rpms 'hang' (run-on) after wot hsn likely too lean After wot Idle high then drops ost likely lsn needle too rich/idle too open.

Or am I misinformed?

 

[Nitro Nerd]

I guess that makes more sense. I gotta stop reading so much crap online. You get so many conflicting ideas. Some say do the LSN first on the stand, then do the HSN. Some say the oppositte. Some say tune on temp others on smoke, yet others on RPM performance. Some say set the idle gap at a specific space and tune everything else from there. Confusing. I wish an expert would come to my house, tune it, let me see what it sounds like and go from there.

No-no...you can get it. Let's try this another way....as perhaps I'm not articulating correctly or....but want to help. Below is a succinct version of how I tune. As noted, I am still learning (and sure I will for many years to come). Definitely follow NitroJedi's advice...I KNOW he knows what he's doing (to the point it's almost scary). I don't know Bobahloo, but he seems very savvy at tuning as well...so definitely welcome both their feedback below. If I am off on one, two, or ALL items below they can chime in again. If I'm wrong on everything I'll wonder how they hell I got my engines to run the way they do...but hey, I always look to improve....and hope to help as well what I am learning--instead of being an internet critic. ;-)

My hope is this will at least get your started in the right direction:

1. I put the needles back to stock (or at least close enough to where it's rich but keep the vehicle running). This includes idle-stop, which is usually 1-1.5mm.

2. I start the engine....then after about 15-20 seconds pinch the fuel line near the inlet to get an idea how off my LSN is. Looking for smooth RPM increase and for it to stall around 7 seconds. This is not me tuning the LSN...but just getting in the ball-park.

2. I run the vehicle on the terrain I'm going to run until it's heat-saturated. They all differ, but my Nova's and OS 25xz seem to take at least two tanks. Thus I would not tune on pavement then run it on a track.

3. I tune the HSN first. I'm simply wanting to get in the RPM range where I'm comfortable.

4. I run it more, and listen to the what happens after WOT (when I let off the throttle). If the RPMs carry on...I richen my HSN a bit.

5. At this point my engine idle is almost always two-staging and idle is high...but that is okay. I do another hard pass and then let it sit and listen to the idle. Normally the idle will be high, then will drop after a few seconds..or when i blip the throttle.

6. I lean the LSN about 1/16 of a turn, and repeat #5 above. Typically the idle will be high, then drop after say 10 seconds. I continue this process ensuring that the time it takes for the idle to drop is increased. So normally at around the 20 second mark I'm good.

7. So at this point I have a engine that has good RPMs and after WOT does not run on, and the idle stays high for about 20 seconds.

8. Then I lay down my idle. I don't measure it...but it's normally around .7-.8mm.

9. I run it again...if, after WOT the idle rises....I'm usually too lean on bottom so adjust and then . As I've stated many, many times...it's about the idle-stop/LSN. There are times I'll need to revisit the HSN as well.

10. Once I have a crisp take off (no big puffs of smoke) I begin to listen to my clutch. By that, depending on my traction and clutch setting....I might need to spring up or down. For example, if, when I take off and I lag (the RPMs increase but remain static OR I am breaking traction)...then I spring down. Just like with the idle, you can listen to your engine to help determine the torque delivery for your clutch setup

This is my basic tune. It sounds easy, but there are a slew of variables and it's taken me a long time (longer than most people I imagine) to become consistent with this.

I am not saying this is the RIGHT method...just what I do. As noted I welcome feedback if I am going in the right direction or mis-informing myself. My intent is to help give you a general understanding.

Thx

 

[bobaloohoo]

Or not properly articulated/read. Rpms 'hang' (run-on) after wot hsn likely too lean After wot Idle high then drops ost likely lsn needle too rich/idle too open.

Or am I misinformed?

at this point youve got me confused, in an earlier post you said if it hangs it is more likely because the HSN is too rich, and now you said its too lean.. dont quote me on this, i didnt copy and paste ;P

I'm by no means doubting you though, you know your stuff! just confused

 

[Nitro Nerd]

I guess I am missing the confusion (and no--I don't drink) where I wrote that...but if I did it was not meant. A while back I addressed it (see #8) it and in a few other threads on the subject dealing with it (another copy and paste job, ya know). I also posted two videos above where real experts--so I believe they are--address the very subject


Certainly I do not know my stuff at all. I am happy to help people who need it based on things I have experienced and learned first hand......paying it forward is important to me. I have a loooong way to go before I am on close to being as skilled as some of you. Like a I said complacency is bad in this hobby. Some areas I have had experience with linkage as an example for the fact I've had to support a slew of them and they used to drive me nuts. NitroJedi pointed out some where I can improve (literally a mm off) and I was grateful for the feedback. \

So apologies for any confusion---which is why I tried to simplify it above--I know I can be long-winded.

With that, please tell me where I can improve on this method or if you see anything just flat out incorrect so we can help Gablett.As he said there is a lot of conflicting information out there.

I mean I am very happy with the performance of my engines...but if there is anything i can do make them run better, I'm certainly open to it. In fact I proactively seek it.

 

[gablett]

I guess I am missing the confusion (and no--I don't drink) where I wrote that...but if I did it was not meant. A while back I addressed it (see #8) it and in a few other threads on the subject dealing with it (another copy and paste job, ya know)


Certainly I do not know my stuff at all. I am happy to help people who need it based on things I have experienced and learned first hand......paying it forward is important to me. I have a loooong way to go before I am on close to being as skilled as some of you. Like a I said complacency is bad in this hobby. Some areas I have had experience with linkage as an example for the fact I've had to support a slew of them and they used to drive me nuts. NitroJedi pointed out some where I can improve (literally a mm off) and I was grateful for the feedback. \

So apologies for any confusion---which is why I tried to simplify it above--I know I can be long-winded.

With that, please tell me where I can improve on this method or if you see anything just flat out incorrect so we can help Gablett.As he said there is a lot of conflicting information out there.

I mean I am very happy with the performance of my engines...but if there is anything i can do make them run better, I'm certainly open to it. In fact I proactively seek it.

Hey man I sent you an email. Did you get it?

 

[bobaloohoo]

I guess I am missing the confusion (and no--I don't drink) where I wrote that...but if I did it was not meant. A while back I addressed it (see #8) it and in a few other threads on the subject dealing with it (another copy and paste job, ya know). I also posted two videos above where real experts--so I believe they are--address the very subject


Certainly I do not know my stuff at all. I am happy to help people who need it based on things I have experienced and learned first hand......paying it forward is important to me. I have a loooong way to go before I am on close to being as skilled as some of you. Like a I said complacency is bad in this hobby. Some areas I have had experience with linkage as an example for the fact I've had to support a slew of them and they used to drive me nuts. NitroJedi pointed out some where I can improve (literally a mm off) and I was grateful for the feedback. \

So apologies for any confusion---which is why I tried to simplify it above--I know I can be long-winded.

With that, please tell me where I can improve on this method or if you see anything just flat out incorrect so we can help Gablett.As he said there is a lot of conflicting information out there.

I mean I am very happy with the performance of my engines...but if there is anything i can do make them run better, I'm certainly open to it. In fact I proactively seek it.

well I've learned a lot about tuning on my own, but I've learned a lot about tuning from this site. but I've not got anything conflicting, I've tuned to how i know to tune, waiting to tune before it warms up, tuning HSN first and allowing to tune to the engine's sound. tuning LSN VERY rarely, i usually never have to. a good engine sound, not screaming so loud it sounds like its gonna blow up, but not bogging down, a good low end grunt, a good shift point/power band, and a good high end scream. if you know what an engine is supposed to sound like you can tune so much easier.

 

[gablett]

Voting Time. Clocked Picco Boost .28 or a Clocked Nova 28-7?

 

[Alexander_0_1]

ERCM Picco/Boost .28, with a 221T to go with.

Not that nitrojedi doesn't have a very reputable operation/store, he also has products ERCM doesn't carry. Its just that ERCM is vendor here. Also ERCM is within driving range, or I pass by his area when I go to the mountains every may/june.

So theres my vote sorry it didn't help.