Hoping for some guidance

[BA0701]

Hey everyone, so I believe I may have given myself brain damage spending hours today researching what my plans may be with this Capra, and I'd like to ask for some advice from those of you who have a lot more experience with this truck, in particular, and with upgrading RCs with third party motors, etc.., in general. Let me know if I have decided on things correctly, or perhaps if something might be better suited to my application.

I believe I am going to buy a Hobbywing 1080 G2, to replace the Spektrum ESC/RX combo that came with the Capra, so that I can quickly begin using my RC8X, making full use of the 4WS and dig, right away. This is going to be a totally new driving style for me, with those two features, so I'd like to work on learning it as quickly as I'm able. I chose the Hobbywing ESC simply because I already have a Hobbywing programming card, and this ESC won't be in the truck more than a few months max, if that long.

I am going to drop in a Castle 10A BEC, for the 8.4V dig servo I have already purchased. Though, I am unsure if I will be able to keep that same BEC in the future, as I plan on upgrading the steering servos as well, and am not sure if this one 10A is capable of running three servos simultaneously or not, if someone with more knowledge in this area might know. I plan on upgrading the two steering servos, in the future, but this is not a pressing issue by any means. While the upgraded servos won't need to be upgraded right away, since it will happen, I might as well buy the correct BEC from the start for the three servo configuration.

Still not 100% on the motor/esc yet, I keep waffling back and forth between the Fusion Pro and an Axe R2 540 2100kv. I like the Fusion for it's simplicity, and the fact that it is a 200kv increase over the Axe. However, I really like the Axe programming app interface, I currently have it and love it, not to mention the simplicity it brings. But, it will be a toss up between those two, for certain.

Another area I am not 100%, for the transmission I am leaning towards the 3 speed, due to the added functionality. I have read people saying the most recent Vanquish 3spd is the best option, but have also read that the older style Axial is the better option. Either way, I believe it will be one of these two transmissions, coupled with the Hurtz three position dig unit.

I currently have some Desert Lizard 90mm, which I plan on running in a droop setup, trying to be as LCG as I'm able, while maintaining capability, along with the AGFRC microservo, and have ordered a Vader skid, among a few other odds and ends.

It seems much of this can be ultra subjective, so I am hoping that some of you folks might have a better idea on which are my best options.

Thank you all, in advance, for any help you might provide!

 

[Jerold]

I am going to drop in a Castle 10A BEC, for the 8.4V dig servo I have already purchased. Though, I am unsure if I will be able to keep that same BEC in the future, as I plan on upgrading the steering servos as well, and am not sure if this one 10A is capable of running three servos simultaneously or not, if someone with more knowledge in this area might know. I plan on upgrading the two steering servos, in the future, but this is not a pressing issue by any means. While the upgraded servos won't need to be upgraded right away, since it will happen, I might as well buy the correct BEC from the start for the three servo configuration.

10A should be plenty. The current rating on the servo is Maximum Amps when it's moving under full load.

I would assume the steering servo is going to get loaded up and pull it's max when your wedged in between some rocks. The auxiliary servos pull very little current, because there is almost no loading and it's only when they are moving.

That's unlikely all your servos will pull full current ever in your life time. It's not like you will get wedged in some predicament change all the gears and the dig constantly while steering with lot so resistance for all the servos?

If you have a decent BEC (Castle, HW, Futaba, Holmes, etc) and do mange to over draw the BEC it should simply limit the current. I say should because if you use some POS from Amazon the whole thing might burst into flames.

Still not 100% on the motor/esc yet, I keep waffling back and forth between the Fusion Pro and an Axe R2 540 2100kv. I like the Fusion for it's simplicity, and the fact that it is a 200kv increase over the Axe. However, I really like the Axe programming app interface, I currently have it and love it, not to mention the simplicity it brings. But, it will be a toss up between those two, for certain.

The HW FOC (Fusion/Axe) is pretty awesome. However, they are both 550 size, meaning a bit longer than a 540. Make sure you can fit it in the chassis. If you have the HW1080 ESC it will NOT work with either one of these. The HW 1080 is for a brushed system the Fusion/Axe are both brushed. The fusion is ESC and Motor in one package. The Axe system needs the Axe ESC.

I wouldn't worry about the programming interface too much unless you plan to change it all the time. I set my fusion once then I "might" have tweaked it, I dunno as you typically set it and forget it. It's not something I would adjust in the field, but everybody is different.

Another area I am not 100%, for the transmission I am leaning towards the 3 speed, due to the added functionality. I have read people saying the most recent Vanquish 3spd is the best option, but have also read that the older style Axial is the better option. Either way, I believe it will be one of these two transmissions, coupled with the Hurtz three position dig unit.

I would start with the standard trans that comes with it. Upgrading the trans is going to take some work as it's not really a drop in. As for multiple speeds, figure out what you want to do with it.

If it's rock crawling the multi-speed trans is extra you may not use it at all. I have a 2-speed in my TRX4 and it's completely unnecessary. It's good for a bit of fun when I want to get some air or spin a donut, but as a crawler it's useless and as a trail truck it's use is questionable. It really there to let you have some fun sort of like a really bad basher. It's not stable at high speed, even with the diffs unlocked and I constanly forget which gear I'm in. I'm about to lock it into low gear and pull the extra servo.

Honestly, I wouldn't try to shoot the wad on the first go round. Most rigs are an ever evolving beast. You try something and find out it's great. The next experiment is a flop. Run it, modify it, repeat.

 

[BA0701]

10A should be plenty. The current rating on the servo is Maximum Amps when it's moving under full load.

I would assume the steering servo is going to get loaded up and pull it's max when your wedged in between some rocks. The auxiliary servos pull very little current, because there is almost no loading and it's only when they are moving.

That's unlikely all your servos will pull full current ever in your life time. It's not like you will get wedged in some predicament change all the gears and the dig constantly while steering with lot so resistance for all the servos?

If you have a decent BEC (Castle, HW, Futaba, Holmes, etc) and do mange to over draw the BEC it should simply limit the current. I say should because if you use some POS from Amazon the whole thing might burst into flames.



The HW FOC (Fusion/Axe) is pretty awesome. However, they are both 550 size, meaning a bit longer than a 540. Make sure you can fit it in the chassis. If you have the HW1080 ESC it will NOT work with either one of these. The HW 1080 is for a brushed system the Fusion/Axe are both brushed. The fusion is ESC and Motor in one package. The Axe system needs the Axe ESC.

I wouldn't worry about the programming interface too much unless you plan to change it all the time. I set my fusion once then I "might" have tweaked it, I dunno as you typically set it and forget it. It's not something I would adjust in the field, but everybody is different.


I would start with the standard trans that comes with it. Upgrading the trans is going to take some work as it's not really a drop in. As for multiple speeds, figure out what you want to do with it.

If it's rock crawling the multi-speed trans is extra you may not use it at all. I have a 2-speed in my TRX4 and it's completely unnecessary. It's good for a bit of fun when I want to get some air or spin a donut, but as a crawler it's useless and as a trail truck it's use is questionable. It really there to let you have some fun sort of like a really bad basher. It's not stable at high speed, even with the diffs unlocked and I constanly forget which gear I'm in. I'm about to lock it into low gear and pull the extra servo.

Honestly, I wouldn't try to shoot the wad on the first go round. Most rigs are an ever evolving beast. You try something and find out it's great. The next experiment is a flop. Run it, modify it, repeat.

View attachment 188954

Seriously, thank you, so much for this, you truly have no idea how much I appreciate the assist!

As for the BEC, as was suggested by WickedFog, I plan on only using Castle 10A, I was just under if I could use it on the three servos simultaneously, but you answered that here.

As for the 1080, the only reason for getting the 1080 (which I have already ordered). is to rid the Capra of the Spektrum ESC/Receiver combo that comes in the rig, so that I can use my RC8X, and fully utilize the 4WS and Dog properly. I need to learn how to drive a rig with that functionality, and since I have so much going on right now, it is unlikely the new motor will be installed soon (perhaps a couple of months away yet).

As for the specific motor, I have an Axe system currently in the Gen8 Axe, and I enjoy the simplicity of the bluetooth App, but I also understand your comment about set it and forget it. WickedFog also suggested I use the Fusion, and I am strongly leaning in that direction, and with all of the thought about the pros and cons I have done the past few days, I believe that is the direction I am going. I already have the HW programming Card, and the cleanliness of the internal ESC is a huge plus given the cramped space of the Capra, not to even mention the additional 200K over the current 540 Axe, and the 2800kv on the 550 Axe is simply too much, as was mentioned by Doom, going higher on the KV is to give up torque. I have already purchased a Vader skid for it, for the exact reasons you mentioned. As I have not decided on which transmission yet, I plan on contacting vader to insure fit with their skid when I do, but as you mentioned that is not currently a requirement, more of something on my to be researched wishlist.

I am currently taking things one step at a time, with getting the 1080 installed, and my radio configured, being at the top of the list. Once I can play with that, then I will know better, which direction should be next.

Thank you, Jerold, so very much, you have really helped me tremendously!

 

[Jerold]

Seriously, thank you, so much for this, you truly have no idea how much I appreciate the assist!

As for the BEC, as was suggested by WickedFog, I plan on only using Castle 10A, I was just under if I could use it on the three servos simultaneously, but you answered that here.

As for the 1080, the only reason for getting the 1080 (which I have already ordered). is to rid the Capra of the Spektrum ESC/Receiver combo that comes in the rig, so that I can use my RC8X, and fully utilize the 4WS and Dog properly. I need to learn how to drive a rig with that functionality, and since I have so much going on right now, it is unlikely the new motor will be installed soon (perhaps a couple of months away yet).

As for the specific motor, I have an Axe system currently in the Gen8 Axe, and I enjoy the simplicity of the bluetooth App, but I also understand your comment about set it and forget it. WickedFog also suggested I use the Fusion, and I am strongly leaning in that direction, and with all of the thought about the pros and cons I have done the past few days, I believe that is the direction I am going. I already have the HW programming Card, and the cleanliness of the internal ESC is a huge plus given the cramped space of the Capra, not to even mention the additional 200K over the current 540 Axe, and the 2800kv on the 550 Axe is simply too much, as was mentioned by Doom, going higher on the KV is to give up torque. I have already purchased a Vader skid for it, for the exact reasons you mentioned. As I have not decided on which transmission yet, I plan on contacting vader to insure fit with their skid when I do, but as you mentioned that is not currently a requirement, more of something on my to be researched wishlist.

I am currently taking things one step at a time, with getting the 1080 installed, and my radio configured, being at the top of the list. Once I can play with that, then I will know better, which direction should be next.

Thank you, Jerold, so very much, you have really helped me tremendously!

You are very welcome! I'm in the forums just about every day, either asking or trying to help where I can. I'm so glad we have these forums.

The 1080 is solid. I was running that before then moved to the Fusion. The low speed control on the Fusion is amazing and it's super quiet too, which I love. The downside is it's pricey and I had to fix my squeak because you could totally hear it.

The RC hobby is an adventure. I used to play with full size cars a lot more and found this to be a lot of fun at a fraction of the price. Also I get a lot less busted knuckles.

Enjoy.

 

[BA0701]

Yeah, brother, I love the community, and wrenching on these little buggers. I became disabled a few years back, and my wife pressed me to find something, knowing I am a lifelong tinkerer, I was driving her nuts finding different things, like laptops, to tear down and have spread out over the table. After 26 years together, she passed last year, so I am now slowly trying to get back into it, stepped away from everything for the past year. I hope I can return the favor, and will do my best to repay all of the help I have received, I am super happy to have found RCT, for sure.

 

[majin]

man i love having something i didnt know i was wondering about answered. so helpful!
i have the HW fusion pro

i drive like a dumb ( is why i locktite my wheels on lolol) but you can see the power of the fusion pro here a little

 

[BA0701]

man i love having something i didnt know i was wondering about answered. so helpful!
i have the HW fusion pro

i drive like a dumb ( is why i locktite my wheels on lolol) but you can see the power of the fusion pro here a little

Impressive rig, pushing that tire around pretty easily. I have an Axe, and even though it is 1800kv, the smallest Axe motor, that thing never fails to impress. Speed and torque, it walks all over my TRX4 Sport. Sounds like the Fusion is more of the same, in that regard, in a much neater, internal ESC package.

Given the glowing reviews I have seen on it, and recommendations I have received here, I have decided to go with the Fusion Pro, too many up sides (higher KV over the Axe 540, much cleaner install (no ESC), and not a single bad review to be found and the only down side is the programmer card vs the app, and that just isn't enough to get my purchase to go the other direction. Cheers man!

 

[Jerold]

Impressive rig, pushing that tire around pretty easily. I have an Axe, and even though it is 1800kv, the smallest Axe motor, that thing never fails to impress. Speed and torque, it walks all over my TRX4 Sport. Sounds like the Fusion is more of the same, in that regard, in a much neater, internal ESC package.

Given the glowing reviews I have seen on it, and recommendations I have received here, I have decided to go with the Fusion Pro, too many up sides (higher KV over the Axe 540, much cleaner install (no ESC), and not a single bad review to be found and the only down side is the programmer card vs the app, and that just isn't enough to get my purchase to go the other direction. Cheers man!

The only real downside is the price, but it performs better than anything else I've seen with the except of 'maybe' the out runners. Look for the sales and you might save a few bucks. The Amain coupons might save your a few $$ too.
https://www.amainhobbies.com/discount-coupon-code

 

[BA0701]

The only real downside is the price, but it performs better than anything else I've seen with the except of 'maybe' the out runners. Look for the sales and you might save a few bucks. The Amain coupons might save your a few $$ too.
https://www.amainhobbies.com/discount-coupon-code

I had no idea that these were even a thing. Thank you so much for this! Besides, who can't use to save a few bucks these day? Cheers, Bro!

 

[majin]

The only real downside is the price, but it performs better than anything else I've seen with the except of 'maybe' the out runners. Look for the sales and you might save a few bucks. The Amain coupons might save your a few $$ too.
https://www.amainhobbies.com/discount-coupon-code

i dig the outrunners, especially for the space they save. my main fear is a rock getting stuck between chasis and motor. I'm super sketched about that happening, otherwise id love to try an outboard personally. I'm looking at one for my scx24 sicne it doesn't go thru much rock

 

[WickedFog]

i dig the outrunners, especially for the space they save. my main fear is a rock getting stuck between chasis and motor. I'm super sketched about that happening, otherwise id love to try an outboard personally. I'm looking at one for my scx24 sicne it doesn't go thru much rock

I don't think it would hurt the motor if a rock got jammed in there. Maybe if you were running really fast the centrifical force might crack the motor bell. But just think about it... its magnetic force spinning that motor. How much magnetic force would there have to be to crush the motor bell on a rock? A whole helluva lot more than that motor can produce. I think you'll be fine

 

[BA0701]

i dig the outrunners, especially for the space they save. my main fear is a rock getting stuck between chasis and motor. I'm super sketched about that happening, otherwise id love to try an outboard personally. I'm looking at one for my scx24 sicne it doesn't go thru much rock

I have a Furitek brushless outrunner in my Cayman Pro, and that thing is amazing, so quiet, so smooth, so responsive, not to mention how cool it is watching it turn, it is literally the best part of that truck. If all outrunners are like that, I'd love to put one in every single rig I have.

 

[Jerold]

i dig the outrunners, especially for the space they save. my main fear is a rock getting stuck between chasis and motor. I'm super sketched about that happening, otherwise id love to try an outboard personally. I'm looking at one for my scx24 sicne it doesn't go thru much rock

I suppose if you are bashing in the dirt it could happen? But I'm not sure what I would do to get rocks inside the truck. Also as @WickedFog said, that thing spins so fast it would have to be a magic rock.

My biggest issue with them is the absolutely insane howl they make if you don't have the right ESC and it's tuned correctly. The Holmes Hobbies CrawlMaster Mini reduced the noise, but I'm not sure of the current status.

For what it's worth, the Fusion Pro is pretty dang close on performance, less expensive and easy to install.

 

[BA0701]

I suppose if you are bashing in the dirt it could happen? But I'm not sure what I would do to get rocks inside the truck. Also as @WickedFog said, that thing spins so fast it would have to be a magic rock.

My biggest issue with them is the absolutely insane howl they make if you don't have the right ESC and it's tuned correctly. The Holmes Hobbies CrawlMaster Mini reduced the noise, but I'm not sure of the current status.

For what it's worth, the Fusion Pro is pretty dang close on performance, less expensive and easy to install.

I just ordered the CC 10A BEC, the programmer cable for it, and a Reef's RC servo horn, which I am really hoping will fit the AGFRC micro that I bought for the dig servo. Long story, but the first time I ordered the AGFRC metal servo horn for it, Amazon sent me a whole servo, just a cheaper version of the one I already bought. I contacted them, they sent me a replacement, and again I got another micro servo. So, I decided to buy the Reef's servo horn for the 99, since it is the same exact servo as the one I bought, and hoping it will work.

Once these parts arrive, should be Saturday, and I get those things installed with the 1080, then I will be ordering the motor, and am 100% going with the Fusion Pro. Hoping to make this Capra a crawling monster!

 

[majin]

I suppose if you are bashing in the dirt it could happen? But I'm not sure what I would do to get rocks inside the truck. Also as @WickedFog said, that thing spins so fast it would have to be a magic rock.

My biggest issue with them is the absolutely insane howl they make if you don't have the right ESC and it's tuned correctly. The Holmes Hobbies CrawlMaster Mini reduced the noise, but I'm not sure of the current status.

For what it's worth, the Fusion Pro is pretty dang close on performance, less expensive and easy to install.

I've wondered about that whine a lot of them make
Clearly sor you have not seen how I drive
I am a fool if a magic rock is out there I would be the one to get it stuck lol
But I see your point
I never considered the speed their rotating at

I have a Furitek brushless outrunner in my Cayman Pro, and that thing is amazing, so quiet, so smooth, so responsive, not to mention how cool it is watching it turn, it is literally the best part of that truck. If all outrunners are like that, I'd love to put one in every single rig I have.

Yeah that's what I'm looking at for mine as well that project got put on hold for a bit tho

 

[BA0701]

If it's rock crawling the multi-speed trans is extra you may not use it at all. I have a 2-speed in my TRX4 and it's completely unnecessary. It's good for a bit of fun when I want to get some air or spin a donut, but as a crawler it's useless and as a trail truck it's use is questionable. It really there to let you have some fun sort of like a really bad basher. It's not stable at high speed, even with the diffs unlocked and I constanly forget which gear I'm in. I'm about to lock it into low gear and pull the extra servo.

Your comment got me thinking about these three gear transmissions, as being familiar with the TRX4 two speed transmission (I actually have the two speed upgrade kit from Traxxas, waiting to install one of these days into my Sport), it was my understanding that the 3 gear trannys, like the ones in the SCX10 II and the Vanquish 3 gear do not function with the use of a servo to change gears, as the TRX4 does, but instead function on centrifugal force. Sort of like an automatic tranny works, the faster you go, it automatically switches gears. The ratios of the 3 gear tranny allows you to run a lower pinion than stock, so that you can get more bottom end. A lot of folks say that the gearing is a little too tall on the stock Capra, and this is one solution for it, not to mention it also allows you to use a Hurtz 3 position dig unit as well, where the stock, again from my understanding, is only a two position, on/off. This video explains it pretty well, I believe:

 

[Jerold]

Your comment got me thinking about these three gear transmissions, as being familiar with the TRX4 two speed transmission (I actually have the two speed upgrade kit from Traxxas, waiting to install one of these days into my Sport), it was my understanding that the 3 gear trannys, like the ones in the SCX10 II and the Vanquish 3 gear do not function with the use of a servo to change gears, as the TRX4 does, but instead function on centrifugal force. Sort of like an automatic tranny works, the faster you go, it automatically switches gears. The ratios of the 3 gear tranny allows you to run a lower pinion than stock, so that you can get more bottom end. A lot of folks say that the gearing is a little too tall on the stock Capra, and this is one solution for it, not to mention it also allows you to use a Hurtz 3 position dig unit as well, where the stock, again from my understanding, is only a two position, on/off. This video explains it pretty well, I believe:

The TRX4 uses a dog clutch actuated by a servo. The diagram doesn't really explain how it works. But the handle bits below slides the round collar back and forth to select the gear.

You could make a centrifugal clutch to increase the gearing as you go faster. However, that may impede some trail ability. There are times when I want some punch or wheel speed to make it over an obstacle. If the centrifugal clutch is a function of RPM it could slip into a higher gear when I really want the lower one with more torque.

 

[BA0701]

The TRX4 uses a dog clutch actuated by a servo. The diagram doesn't really explain how it works. But the handle bits below slides the round collar back and forth to select the gear.
View attachment 189599


You could make a centrifugal clutch to increase the gearing as you go faster. However, that may impede some trail ability. There are times when I want some punch or wheel speed to make it over an obstacle. If the centrifugal clutch is a function of RPM it could slip into a higher gear when I really want the lower one with more torque.

That makes total sense, and I can see a use for both. I've never really had much chance to want more than the Sport gives me in only low gear, which is likely the reason I have sat on the upgrade kit for so long. While there have been times where I wish I had a little more on the top end, it never took away from what I wanted out of the truck. I didn't buy it to be a track star.

I am currently holding off on the transmission, and the three position dig, for now, until I can get the things in the Capra that are going in no matter what, and then I can fix/upgrade things as I see fit. I just know that the taller gearing on it seems to be a predominant complaint amongst many who have been crawling with them, especially with there being little room to maneuver with in terms of the pinion options on the stock rig. We've been discussing about trying to take it up into the mountains within the next 2-3 weeks, once I finish installing what I have now, and I will have a better idea of where I am going with the rest of it after that. No way I am going to drop almost $400 for upgrades that I do not feel will make a big difference. About the only thing that is for sure going to be upgraded, that I have not yet purchased is the steering servos, as I haven't yet decided on which ones I want to go with.

I am most excited to run a rig with 4WS and Dig, since this is my first with those two functions, and I have seen what that functionality introduces to overall capability. If I don't see a need for the tranny/dig unit upgrades, then I will stick with what is there