Questions on chargers

[Weezel]

Here ya go. This will explain it.

Basically it matters more as the battery gets older and/or the bigger the battery is.

I am confused why you said to the OP "You've been had "?

 

[WickedFog]

Basically it matters more as the battery gets older and/or the bigger the battery is.

I am confused why you said to the OP "You've been had "?

It matters more the bigger your pack is. Age has nothing to do with the balance current unless your IR is ridiculously bad.

I said you been had because I thought he had bought an inferior charger and paid more for it based on a LHS suggesting a gensacearespammers charger after all the advice he got here.

Unless you are going to buy an external power supply to run on DC, you'd be very hardpressed to find a better charger than a Hota for the money. They are quality units. The LCD and firmware is awesome. The features it has are awesome. And the build quality is second to none. They are built like a high end electronic device. Gens, SkyRC, and a lot of the other brands are selling overpriced chargers with lesser specs. Look at all the specs. Not just the watts and amps. A lot of the chargers have wattage ratings they can't even reach

If you are looking for a DC charger, you cannot go wrong buying ISDT or iCharger.

Watch more of Joshua Bardwell's vids. You'll learn something today But in all seriousness, he has a lot of informative vids on chargers and LiPo's.

 

[BA0701]

I've looked at that discharger before, but wasn't sure... how does it keep the cells balanced with no balance lead connection?

This guy touches on exactly your concern, and basically says if the cells are draining at vastly different rates, then there is likely a problem with your battery. He storage drains a fully charged 1500mah 4S, in this video in 4mins, and then puts it on two different meters (a stand alone meter, and the meters on his charger that he charged the battery with (not including the app that works with the discharger), and all 4 cells show 3.8 on both meters, after discharge. Guess I'll be adding one of those nice IDST meters to my ever growing list of things I need to get.

 

[majin]

Here's how I convert my power supplies, not very difficult if you have soldering skills, I recently did a conversion for $23:
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/sho...vert-HP-Power-Supply&perpage=100#post43199655

there was a guy making theese at btc this year really nice in ammo cans and such were very cool and i want one before my next event lol, those charging times were atrocious. if i had my own bank i could have just done it at the tent and saved probably 20 miles of walking back n forth from charge station
@bill_delong pm inbound lol

 

[BA0701]

there was a guy making theese at btc this year really nice in ammo cans and such were very cool and i want one before my next event lol, those charging times were atrocious. if i had my own bank i could have just done it at the tent and saved probably 20 miles of walking back n forth from charge station
@bill_delong pm inbound lol

That is basically what Buddy RC does, he sells single power supplies, at 12V, or two bridged at 24V. I was on my way to buying one, when he got me to look at a different solution. His product pages even say that they are server power supplies, typically Dell or HP. @bill_delong should start a business.

https://www.buddyrc.com/collections/power-supply

 

[WickedFog]

This guy touches on exactly your concern, and basically says if the cells are draining at vastly different rates, then there is likely a problem with your battery. He storage drains a fully charged 1500mah 4S, in this video in 4mins, and then puts it on two different meters (a stand alone meter, and the meters on his charger that he charged the battery with (not including the app that works with the discharger), and all 4 cells show 3.8 on both meters, after discharge. Guess I'll be adding one of those nice IDST meters to my ever growing list of things I need to get.

Just so you know... rapidly discharging a LiPo can be quite dangerous, just like overcharging them.

 

[BA0701]

Just so you know... rapidly discharging a LiPo can be quite dangerous, just like overcharging them.

Yeah, he did that at 25amps to show how fast he could do it for the video, but even suggests going much lower. Thank you, though, definitely more good advice!

 

[majin]

That is basically what Buddy RC does, he sells single power supplies, at 12V, or two bridged at 24V. I was on my way to buying one, when he got me to look at a different solution. His product pages even say that they are server power supplies, typically Dell or HP. @bill_delong should start a business.

https://www.buddyrc.com/collections/power-supply

Buddy rc tried to get me to get one of these as well, but i was too broke by then sadly lol
thats who i got my 3 new gensacearespammers batteries from. i dig the adapters they come with

 

[BA0701]

Buddy rc tried to get me to get one of these as well, but i was too broke by then sadly lol
thats who i got my 3 new gensacearespammers batteries from. i dig the adapters they come with

The whole gens spammers thing still has me cracking up.

 

[majin]

The whole gens spammers thing still has me cracking up.

fat fingers lol wonder what autocorrect was thinking

The whole gens spammers thing still has me cracking up.

so i tried to correct it to gensacearespammers, but it automatically changes it is weird wonder why lol

 

[WickedFog]

gensacearespammers had people here spamming the forum like the Chinese do with the robo calls. It got really out of hand. So Woodie fixed it to where any time you type their name now, you get gensacearespammers

 

[BA0701]

fat fingers lol wonder what autocorrect was thinking


so i tried to correct it to gensacearespammers, but it automatically changes it is weird wonder why lol

I'm dead, it is actually funnier seeing it happen to someone else. Happened to me earlier, and then I figured out they must have done exactly what @WickedFog said, leading to that. Still hilarious!

 

[Weezel]

It matters more the bigger your pack is. Age has nothing to do with the balance current unless your IR is ridiculously bad.

I said you been had because I thought he had bought an inferior charger and paid more for it based on a LHS suggesting a gensacearespammers charger after all the advice he got here.

The IR does get worse with age of a battery. "My take is" a new battery with really low IR doesn't need much for a balance current, right?

I guess I didn't think the $10 difference in price with the minimal difference in specs from what I see was a "Ha-Ha" moment.


I'm not knocking on any of the recommendations or suggestions of what to look for or what brand to get. l just got lost in the "got ripped off" assumption.

IWatch more of Joshua Bardwell's vids. You'll learn something today But in all seriousness, he has a lot of informative vids on chargers and LiPo's.

I have watched his vids on fpv and have gotten some good ideas.

 

[WickedFog]

The IR does get worse with age of a battery. "My take is" a new battery with really low IR doesn't need much for a balance current, right?

I guess I didn't think the $10 difference in price with the minimal difference in specs from what I see was a "Ha-Ha" moment.


I'm not knocking on any of the recommendations or suggestions of what to look for or what brand to get. l just got lost in the "got ripped off" assumption.



I have watched his vids on fpv and have gotten some good ideas.

Yes, IR goes up with age of the pack. But I am failing to see why you are trying to tie that together with the balance current the charger has. The IR is not the limiting factor here. The balance current is. The lower the balance current, the longer the balance cycle will take. And yes, the .4mAh difference is a noticable one.

My comment about him being had was meant more about a LHS convincing someone to buy an inferior product rather than the difference in price and specs. Back in the 80's, I would trust a LHS. These days... they just want your money. You are far better off listening to the consumer community than you are the retailers, who have more knowledge of selling than actual use of the products they push.

 

[Weezel]

Yes, IR goes up with age of the pack. But I am failing to see why you are trying to tie that together with the balance current the charger has. The IR is not the limiting factor here. The balance current is. The lower the balance current, the longer the balance cycle will take. And yes, the .4mAh difference is a noticable one.

My comment about him being had was meant more about a LHS convincing someone to buy an inferior product rather than the difference in price and specs. Back in the 80's, I would trust a LHS. These days... they just want your money. You are far better off listening to the consumer community than you are the retailers, who have more knowledge of selling than actual use of the products they push.

That's what I originally asked "I wouldn't think a max of .4amps was significant."
But isn't IR what makes a cell charge or discharge faster than another one? If each cell charged the same there wouldn't be a need for a balance current. I'm trying to think at what you say controls the balance charge rate?


Gotcha what you're saying about the LHS vs community reviews.

The IR does get worse with age of a battery. "My take is" a new battery with really low IR doesn't need much for a balance current, right?

Yes, IR goes up with age of the pack. But I am failing to see why you are trying to tie that together with the balance current the charger has.

What does my comment have to do with what balance rate a charger is rated for?

 

[WickedFog]

That's what I originally asked "I wouldn't think a max of .4amps was significant."
But isn't IR what makes a cell charge or discharge faster than another one? If each cell charged the same there wouldn't be a need for a balance current. I'm trying to think at what you say controls the balance charge rate?


Gotcha what you're saying about the LHS vs community reviews.

The IR will make the cells charge/discharge at different speeds. But the balance current is the limiting factor on how fast the entire balance charge will take. Put the same battery on two different chargers, and the one with the faster balance circuit will be done sooner. Watch your charger's output amperage once it starts a balance cycle, after one cell is topped off. You'll no longer be charging at your 1C rate. Because your balance circuit is limiting it because it can only drain the charged cells as fast as the balance circuit will allow.

So in other words, it's not the slower to charge cells that are slowing the balance cycle down. It's the discharging of the cells that charged faster.

Hope that helps. I am no expert, but that is the way I understand it.

 

[Weezel]

We're talking about two different things. I know that a charger with a higher current balance charge rate will charge a battery faster. I'm saying that the higher the IR the more balance current will be needed. And as batteries get older the more the IR they have.

 

[BA0701]

Just ordered the Hota D6 Pro, along with the ISDT BG-8S battery checker, from Buddy RC. I should be cooking with gas now, but most importantly, coupled with the discharger, I will now be light years faster than things have been previously. Now back to focusing on this Capra. Thanks, to everyone who helped me understand these things better!

 

[WickedFog]

We're talking about two different things. I know that a charger with a higher current balance charge rate will charge a battery faster. I'm saying that the higher the IR the more balance current will be needed. And as batteries get older the more the IR they have.

The balance current will be a constant. The IR will not change that. Yes, the overall charge time will be longer if you have mismatched cells. The more mismatch there is, the longer it will be from the first cell to finish to the last cell to finish. But the rate at which the finished cells are drained will not exceed the limit that the IR will allow. If it did, the battery would heat up and vent. Does that make sense?

Just ordered the Hota D6 Pro, along with the ISDT BG-8S battery checker, from Buddy RC. I should be cooking with gas now, but most importantly, coupled with the discharger, I will now be light years faster than things have been previously. Now back to focusing on this Capra. Thanks, to everyone who helped me understand these things better!

View attachment 189440

Don't forget to grab some cables to go from the XT60 on the charger to whatever your batteries use.

With any charger, I would also recommend balance lead extensions. This will prevent your balance ports on your charger from getting worn out.

If you want to solder up your own leads, make sure to grab Amass brand connectors. The knockoff Chinese brands use a cheap plastic that melts easily. Amass makes lots of different connectors. If you use Deans, make sure to buy authentic Deans.

These look like some awesome balance leads...
4Pcs JST-XH Balance Cable 2-6S 3S Lipo Battery Balance Charger Extend Expansion Plug Leads https://a.co/d/8yNeIU7

 

[Weezel]

The balance current will be a constant. The IR will not change that. Yes, the overall charge time will be longer if you have mismatched cells. The more mismatch there is, the longer it will be from the first cell to finish from the last cell to finish. But the rate at which the finished cells are drained will not exceed the limit that the IR will allow. If it did, the battery would heat up and vent. Does that make sense?

Go back to your original response to my comment. You linked to a video. And I said that the higher the balance rate a charger has the better it is for older and/or larger batteries.
I haven't tried to say anything more.