Difficult Start & High Speed Idle - Help!

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Mini-Arg

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Hello RCNitro Talk community!

I am new to the hobby and I have been reading a lot on this website over the last few weeks. Thank you all for the informative posts and advice geared towards nubbies. I am so far really liking nitro in general but I am having a few issues I was hoping to get some guidance on:

The Truck:
Pre-owned HPI Trophy 4.6 truggy. Probably with a few gallons run through it by the previous owner but the truggy is generally in good health.

The Current Tunning Condition:
Although I am a nubbie I think I have a relatively good/ OK tune. I followed these steps:
1. Running on 25% nitro.
2. Reset needles to factory settings.
3. After start and warm up (half a tank or so) adjusted the high speed needle in very small increments.
4. Got a high pitch sound with a good amount of smoke at full throttle and very good top speed. Based on videos I’ve seen online the car sounds great!
5. Then I moved to the low speed needle.
6. Little adjustments were needed (as the owners manual indicated).
7. I tried the “pinch” test and I seem to have an OK low end tune.
8. Again, I have a good amount of smoke at low RPMs with great acceleration.
9. Neither at low nor high speed I have excessive smoke, just a good amount.
10. The good amount of smoke and the good sound and performance of the truggy make me think I have a relatively good tune overall.
11. Notes: As suggested in a lot of posts I have (1) used a new glow plug (for medium temperature), (2) check the fuel lines for leaks, (3) checked the full charge on the glow plug igniter, (4) adjusted the idle screw to approximately 1mm. (5) I’ve sealed the back plate and carb recently following a good online tutorial. (6) I’ve removed and opened the engine and seems to be in good shape with good compression. (7) I’ve replaced the pullstart as the old one was crap and was filled with a green like oil. The new one seemed to be working well but I have (lately) noticed some oil on it again (just like the old one but much less). I have replaced the exhaust gasket as I’ve read the leak could be coming from there. The spring seems to be worn though.

The Problems:

1. Difficult Start:
It seems to be very difficult to get the truggy to start. It may be the temperature (around 50 F) but it takes me around 20 to 30 minutes to get it started with the pull start. The car started faster at 65 F and then temperature dropped and it got impossible to start. I haven’t tried warming up the engine with a hair dryer because I live in a condo so I can’t really start it up inside the house or my wife and neighbors will kill me. It was easier to start it up after resetting the carburetor needles to stock, but the more I get to a good tune the more difficult it gets to get it started.

2. Really High Speed Idle:
I’ve read that the idle is really adjusted after the high speed needle (and before the low speed needle). I followed these instructions and tried to the idle right but when I get the wheels of the ground the move pretty fast. I don’t want to touch the idle screw because it is pretty much at 1mm. If I try to richen the low speed needle I seem to lose some performance at low speeds, which leads me to believe the low speed needle was correctly set.
I have read this could be a clutch/ shoes issue, but haven’t had the chance to open it up to check it.

I am wondering if there are any connections between these issues (difficult start and high idle speed). Any comments/ suggestions/ guidance will be appreciated…..
 
Hello RCNitro Talk community!

1. Difficult Start:
It seems to be very difficult to get the truggy to start. It may be the temperature (around 50 F) but it takes me around 20 to 30 minutes to get it started with the pull start. The car started faster at 65 F and then temperature dropped and it got impossible to start. I haven’t tried warming up the engine with a hair dryer because I live in a condo so I can’t really start it up inside the house or my wife and neighbors will kill me. It was easier to start it up after resetting the carburetor needles to stock, but the more I get to a good tune the more difficult it gets to get it started.

2. Really High Speed Idle:
I’ve read that the idle is really adjusted after the high speed needle (and before the low speed needle). I followed these instructions and tried to the idle right but when I get the wheels of the ground the move pretty fast. I don’t want to touch the idle screw because it is pretty much at 1mm. If I try to richen the low speed needle I seem to lose some performance at low speeds, which leads me to believe the low speed needle was correctly set.
I have read this could be a clutch/ shoes issue, but haven’t had the chance to open it up to check it.

I am wondering if there are any connections between these issues (difficult start and high idle speed). Any comments/ suggestions/ guidance will be appreciated…..
Sounds like you are on the right path.
#1 If your pull-start engine takes longer than 1-2 minutes to start.....you need to stop and troubleshoot as continuing to pull is a waste of time. The most common problem by far is a flooded engine. A lot of people THINK they have unflooded their engine when they haven't. Once my neighbor spent two DAYS trying to start his Savage. I kept hear it 'dit-dit-dit...dit-dit-dit..." He swore up and down "oh I've unflooded it to the letter" and all I could think was obviously not because it's STILL flooded. My point it once you are done unflooding...unflood some more. Also, remember the more you try to start and are unable to....the MORE you are flooding your engine as well., So if you unflood....pull for 20 minutes you'll need to unflood again. Don't worry if the pull-start isn't tight. Just unflood it. Heating it help will help. Just heat it inside and quickly run outside...or use an extension cord.

#2. This one is easy. Just turn your idle screw in CCW. I know you said you don't want to touch it...but that is what you need to do. ;-) It's perfectly fine. 1mm is just a baseline. Seeing as it's a used vehicle, if you turn it in and then when you brake your RPMs drop or engine stalls you'll need to adjust your throttle linkage. If that happens let us know and we'll help you adust it.
 
Great suggestions! I will try them over the weekend! Thanks!!!
 
No worries. I too used to get blisters on my hands from pulling and pulling but eventually found pull-starts to be easiest of all starting mechanisms. Seems like you've done your homework, so it's just a matter of getting used to it all.

Do you know the guy you bought it from well? I ask due to the needles settings. If you get lost just go back to flush on both needles. Remember as you tweak your LSN, you'll probably want to adjust your idle stop as well. Those are the two important needles for a good tune.
 
Yeah! Blisters...I got a few of those getting it started. However, I do think I am getting a bit better...

I don't really know the guy I bought the car from. He did mention the LSN was pretty much "in tune" and the HSN needed adjusting but I ended up going back to stock a few times after that because I had no idea what I was doing.

I now need good weather to continue practicing.

Thank you for the suggestions and support!
 
Update: I think my tuning has improved. The truck seems to run better, faster and also starts faster (much faster). I still think I have some more tuning to do but the car had never run faster (at least not with me)! To be honest I think the idle speed is still probably to high but the last few runs I just wanted to have fun and not worry to much about getting the "perfect" tune. Regarding the idle needle, should I keep closing it CCW? It seems to be almost closed now....
 
Try closing your idle gap which will reduce your idle speed and richen the idle mixture.

Then Lean the LSN, which in turn will make the motor easier to start... Check your idle mixture (LSN) tune by pinch test.

Keep reducing the idle gap and adjusting the LSN as required.

Once the engine is warm, you should be able to give it a sharp rev and brake (wheels off the ground) and there should be no hesitation in the engine rev, and it should immediately return to a stable consistent idle.
 
Thanks Punisher! I will follow your instructions over the weekend and let you know how it goes. I was hesitant to keep closing the idle gap because at this point it looks as if it was almost closed. However, your suggestions make sense. I'll keep you posted!
 

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