Trinity Reflex NT Team VS G4 Pro

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Nitroaddict

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Looking at other touring cars.........Interested in the Refelx NT Team Only. What are the major differences between this and the G4 Pro? huge price difference, 420.00 vs 365.00.
 
Not a 100% sure. I think one of the mags did a test on each car in recent months. I'll look at mine to see if I have them. If so I'll scan them and send them to ya.
 
thanks team.
 
From the mad Extreme RC or RC411.com
Here's the one on Reflex:

Do you want to know what it’s like to be sponsored? If we race, we would all love to experience the joy of receiving super secret “team only” parts in the mail. Well, Trinity has just released a national sponsorship that’s open to everybody. That’s right, everybody. You can now buy (it’s a small price to pay to be a part of a team) the Reflex NT in a Team Only version. You’ll get, right in the box, all the parts that the team guys get. When Trinity released the RNT, they advertised it has being ready for the track with no hop-ups. In a way, they were correct, but the Team guys are always testing new ideas and parts. Much to the credit of Josh Cyrul and Joel Johnson, the new kit not only gets the full factory treatment of aluminum parts but also improves on the original kit’s excellent track manners. We set to find out if joining the “team” is worth it. Remember there’s no “I” in team, but there is one in win.

Features
Chassis • A super thick 4mm base provides rigamortis like stiffness to the chassis. This prevents uncontrollable twist in the chassis and inconsistent handling. To keep the weight to a minimum, the chassis has been milled out to get rid of unnecessary weight. A cut-out for the receiver battery is bridged by a graphite plate. Vents underneath the engine are milled on an angle to help direct air upward and theoretically cool the engine more. If nothing more they are a good conversation piece. “Hey, my chassis has cooling ducts!”
The upper deck is woven graphite and provides the mounting spots for the electronics and 75cc fuel tank. Another graphite brace stiffens the chassis by connecting the upper deck to the rear bulkhead while on the left side of the chassis gets an aluminum brace

A revised front bumper configuration addresses the previous version’s weak bumper. A Delrin plate now is thrown into the bumper sandwich to help take some of the shock out of “accidents.” A new body mounting position is used to help keep the nose of the body from flexing at high speeds. After shooting the car for the layout, we found that mounts moved the holes too close to the headlights and looked funny for our cover.

Suspension • Anything new in the suspension arena is molded in a dark grey plastic. The new material is stiffer and more resilient than the older black plastic. The same pivot-ball suspension is found in all four corners. The 9mm pivot balls are secured with aluminum screws and cannot be tightened too much or they could bind.

New to the suspension arena are revised rear shock towers with improved geometry, a new aluminum front shock tower with optional shock angles, front blade-style sway-bar, and Delrin shock pistons. The new shock angles in the front should help out greatly in tuning.

The shocks are threaded, aluminum body, oil filled and come with a variety of springs in the kit for tuning. You’ll need to pick up another set of springs to be able to run the same springs all around, but most drivers will find that this is never the case. The new pistons will provide smoother action. Many won’t notice the difference and that’s a good thing

Droop screws and up-stop screws are found in the rear and only droop limiters in the front are included. The rear camber link has the option of two locations on the bulkhead and on the hub carrier. This will help dial the rear in and alter roll-center. A standard sway bar is used on the rear suspension to help keep the chassis flat in the corners

Drive Train • A big bonus in the kit is the included Centax-style clutch that lets you adjust the clutch engagements. The 2-speed tranny is also a clutch-style, which allows you to adjust the shift point, as well as the force it engages with. The two together can be a little overwhelming in the beginning, but once you get the two set correctly, the result is faster acceleration and smooth shifting. All the drive pulleys are now hard-anodized to provide wear-free operation. Aluminum pulley mounts are now standard. They keep the drive train free spinning under the high stresses of the drive train. New to the driveline is the front one-way pulley. This will give you the fastest possible corner speed with the only downside being the tricky braking. CV-axles are in all four corners and bearings ensure a friction-free ride

Steering • An inverted servo is perched in on the upper deck. You can choose between two mounting styles-–a clamp type and a fixed style. The clamp allows you to adjust the angle of the servo linkage and alter the way the car reacts to the servo. I suggest that you start with the fixed mounts. They seem to work better. Steel turnbuckles control the angles of the front wheels.

Body, Tires, & Wheels • You don’t get a body in the box, so we chose Trinity’s Reference body and we had Dave paint up the scheme with a combination of Spaz Sticks and Parma paints. Tires are also not on the menu so we decided to strap some new TRC foamies on the front and rear for maximum traction.
Engine and Accessories • There isn’t a engine, manifold, or pipe to be found in the box, so you’ll have to get one when you get the kit. We chose the new Team Magic Competition pipe coupled with a new Trinity Picco turbo on-road .12 engine. The pipe deserves some “coolness” praise for its innovative ability to change the length of the pipe with spacers. This allows you to fine tune the power band of the engine without cutting anything. Shorter length for improved high end performance and insert some spacers for better low-end performance. It’s an awesome feature for a pipe.

Instructions • Probably the only weakness of the car is the instructions. The instructions have an addendum to the original copy and then an additional addendum for all the optional accessories in the box. They are definitely confusing, so make sure to pay attention when building. It’s highly recommended that when you need to refer to the addendums that you highlight the steps on the main instructions.

Testing
After a good break-in, it was time to head to our local speedway, Revelation Raceway. The big track is a proving grounds for any RC car that’s made for the street. Its big and wide-open layout, combined with a technical section, make for some fun laps and racing.

Acceleration • Once we got the 2-speed shifting at a good speed and the clutch engaging at the right time, the Reflex was gone. The Trinity Picco proved that it can generate some big power and speed with the Team Only. Launches were straight and hard. You have to thank Picco for a great engine and Trinity for providing a stable setup.
Rating: 10

Top Speed • This has more to do with engine and gearing than the chassis itself. Getting up to top speed seemed to be in a blink as 50mph registered on the radar with lightning speed. This car can handle whatever engine you choose.
Rating: 10

Braking • After driving car after car with a one-way in the front, you get used to not being able to brake when you want to. Credit Ellliot for building the car without any tweak and the stellar setup the Team Only instructs you to use. Set the brakes so the wheels don’t lock and the car feels planted. More so than other cars we’ve recently driven. If you build it right, the RNT won’t throw any end swapping surprises your way.
Rating: 8

Low-Speed Handling • It’s sometimes hard to go slow, but the RNT Team Only didn’t object to speeds that are school-zone friendly. A slight push instilled a level of confidence that made you want to go faster. The front-one way allows you to go through the corners with the absolute maximum velocity. No complaints here.
Rating: 9

High-Speed Handling • Once the pace was quickened, the RNT’s slight push again made the car feel super stable and easy to control. There was no twitchy feeling at full clamp and through the fastest turns it was dead on. If we started to drift out of line, simply letting off the throttle allowed the RNT to pull back in tighter.
Rating: 9

Rough Track Handling • If you consider a parking lot rough then the car’s setup needs to be adjusted. A smooth world-class track allows you to run a race setup, but a rougher track requires some changes. For parking lots, the stock setup isn’t going to work that well, but you can make the appropriate changes to make it work
Rating: 8

Tuning • The stock setup was amazing. But if there is a need to make some changes you’ll be glad to know that the new Team Only is more adjustable than the previous kit. New front shock towers allow the front to be dialed in better and the pivot-ball suspension will tune-in to any track.
Rating: 9

Damage • Damage depends on the level of driver. With only a few minor scuffs, the RNT kept on motoring. The last version had some issues with the threads being pulled out of the arms. The new gray plastic is supposed to have fixed this minor annoyance. It’ll take some more racing to see, but it looks like the problem is gone
Rating: 9

Conclusion
Trinity just made it easy to feel like part of the team with the new Reflex NT Team Only. You get all the parts that the factory guys get to use and a setup that will make you look like you belong on the team. The Trinity was one of the first cars to offer an “upgraded” kit when it released the Reflex, but with more track time they have made some changes and included more optional parts that make the Team Only one of the best out there.

Here's the one on the GT-4:

Chassis
The suspension and drive train of the GT-4 is bolted on a 3mm thick aluminum countersunk chassis. The unique front and rear bulkheads that hold together the gears and arms are positioned lengthwise which adds rigidity. The bulkheads are unique due to their length; each measures over 3” long. The rear bulkhead has a clean look thanks to the fact that integrates the 2-speed transmission/brake/pulley assembly together. All the electronics and the fuel tank are mounted onto the molded top deck, which also helps to keep the entire car sturdy. Two molded chassis supports are placed from the back of the top deck to the rear assembly to act as a brace against twisting action.

The weight distribution is well thought out. The engine, fuel tank, and batteries are located towards the center of the car. By locating most of the weight in the middle, weight transfer is not a large issue. The more balanced the car is the more even it will turn left to right and right to left.

Suspension • The GT-4 uses suspension geometry similar to that found on popular 1/8-scale cars. Not until recently did 1/10-scale designers find that
1/8-scale suspension concepts would work well in the smaller scale. The front suspension consists of swept-forward upper arms that mount to large pillow ball ends. Steering spindles are captured by these pillow balls. Camber can be easily adjusted by screwing the upper ball inward or outward. Caster can also be adjusted by relocating plastic shims that rest on the upper hinge pin. The rear end is similar to the front. Adjusting the upper arm can change the camber and tweaking the lower ball mounts inward or outward can change toe. In addition, the pivot ball suspension reduced the slop, if not eliminated it. To absorb the bumps and turns, oil-filled, molded shock bodies are used. The shock caps have bleeding holes that make rebuilds consistent and easy. I wasn’t too hip to the molded shock bodies. With all the high performance features that this car has, I would expect maybe aluminum shocks with threaded bodies. (But that’s me.)

To control suspension arm droop or overhang, and even ride height, small setscrews are mounted onto the arms that can go up against the chassis. This form of limiting makes adjustments easier and more precise and is found on newer nitro cars.

Drive Train • The GT-4 uses the same three-belt configuration that seems to be the most popular layout choice among nitro car designers. From one center shaft, power is transferred via a short belt to the rear differential. On the same center shaft is another pulley that uses a long belt to move power to another pulley and shaft located about a third of the way back from the front of the car. That shaft uses a second pulley that eventually transfers power to the front diff via another short belt. The front and rear differentials are planetary gears diffs. Balls diffs may be the choice of champions, but I think that gear diffs are more practical and reliable in the sense that they require less upkeep because they are sealed against the elements.

Another popular choice in the nitro touring class the 2-speed transmission. The GT-4 includes a close-ratio, 2-speed transmission that is held on by a 2-speed clutch bell. The 2-speed tunes easily thanks to a simple setscrew adjustment.

Steering • The steering servo is mounted upside down on the top deck (i.e., the servo horn faces downward). A large servo saver is used to connect two adjustable rods. These rods connect to the steering carriers. This steering assembly is simple because it doesn’t use bell cranks, which can sometimes exaggerate bump-steer.

Wheels, Tires, and Body • The GT-4 is fitted with Hot Laps radial tires wrapped around twelve spoke wheels that proved to be pretty rigid. Like some pro kits, the GT-4 doesn’t come with a body.

Testing
Test Gear • I used a JR XR3 radio with receiver, 2 Z250 servos, Rex CR12 engine, .12 size Paris tuned pipe and Yokomo manifold, Dynamite Starter, Blue Thunder fuel, and an Andy’s Accord body. (Special thanks to Andy for the Killer pigment.)

Acceleration • The Nova Rossi is just a tremendous power plant. When starting from a stop, acceleration was quick and straight. I had adjusted the 2-speed transmission to shift into second gear just before top speed was reached in first gear, which was about 30 feet. The transition from first to second gears was considerably smooth even under hard acceleration. I suggest adjusting the 2-speed once the engine has reached the racing temperature. Shift points change considerably depending on engine temperature because of the different RPMs engines produce at those different temps.

Top Speed • The long back straight of Crystal Park race track in Compton, CA was the perfect setting to test the GT-4’s top speed. The car had topped out second gear soon after reaching the halfway point on the straightaway. The chassis seemed fast enough in first gear, but it’s nice to know that second gear was available when I needed it. For tracks that are smaller than Crystal Park, like my other test track at Massies Hobbies in Alhambra, CA, top speed should be attained quickly by adjusting the shift points. The Mugen Rex Nova Rossi and 2-speed transmission offered plenty of top speed to say the least.

Rough Track Handling • The stock setup did a pretty good job of handling the uneven sections of the track. However, there were bumps that upset the rear of the car causing it to hop, but all I had to do was hit the gas and the GT-4 straightened itself out. Obviously the car prefers smooth surfaces. Duh? But compensating for the bumps like raising ride height or adjusting shock dampening would compromise the handling of any on-road car. Besides, the car was hooked up everywhere else!

High-Speed Handling • The stock springs and 30wt oil were responsive to high-speed steering inputs. Just to see the difference, I changed the front oil to Trinity’s 40wt Pure Silicon Shock Oil to provide heavier dampening. The heavier oil gave more resistance to spring compression, which in turn put a little more force down on the front tires. This was a good adjustment because it sharpened the steering response and reduced the high-speed push.

Braking • The large steel brake disk provided consistent braking through multiple tanks of fuel. The tires didn’t lock when I initially applied the brakes but the car came to a stop quickly and in a straight line. I also noticed that the brakes didn’t have the jerking effect that other touring gas cars have.

Low-Speed Handling • The GT-4 was smooth like an electric car though the tight sections. Overall, the stock setup provided a solid and predictable feel. Although exiting low-speed corners provided just the right amount of push, I felt that entering the corners could be improved upon (at least for my driving style). I tried moving the upper shock location from the innermost hole to the outermost location. This gave the car a more square feel that increased initial turn-in. I liked the improved steering. but then the rear began to break loose. I installed a set of Blue HPI progressive springs that I had handy to the rear to increase spring rate, which increased exiting traction.

Overall Drivability/Stability • The stock setup is a good platform to begin with. However, this is a car with plenty of tuning options to suit each driver’s preferences. The one adjustment that provided the most improvement in stability was running the firm Yokomo tires with firm Yokomo inserts. Tire wear was decent – well worth the added performance.

Damage Report • During a race at Massies, another car jumped the track and collided head on into my car. The motor was still running, but something was dragging. The first thought that came to my head was to call Mike to let him know that the test car was totaled. I then brought the car in and saw that it looked worse that it really was. All that had happened was that the foam bumper was rubbing against the front tires. Other than a damaged foam bumper, I was ready to fuel up and race another race. Oh yeah. My right rear tire kept coming off. I guess the REX motor was driving the wheels off this bad boy, so I clamped that wheel nut down a little tighter.

Maintenance Report • Working on the GT-4 takes a little getting used to. Accessing things like the diffs takes lots of time and effort. Keep those instructions handy at all times.

Conclusion
There are some people who prefer to drive electric cars because of their responsive and predictable handling characteristics. I’m going to go out on a limb and saying that the GT-4 runs like an electric car. The GT-4 is user-friendly as far as driving is concerned. I believe that anyone can drive the GT-4 and feel that this car is surefooted and solid in performance. It took a long time for Yokomo to come out with this car, but the R&D along with the track time before production was definitely worth the wait. Out of the box tht GT-4 is priced in the middle of the range. I’d like to see a fully-optioned version to better compete with the offerings from Serpent and Mugen. There are cheaper and more expensive cars available, but where it sits in terms of price, the GT-4 is a great value.
 
seems to me - that if i am trying to get a world class car - the reflex is a better offereing than the G4.
 
I agree. Are going to buy one?
 
Thinking about it - not in any hurry though. may be a christmas gift to myself. Need some extra cash right now, and if i sell my NTC3 - i will most likely replace it with something better, as i am almost 100% using it for racing. The only reason i didnt get a serpent, trinity, ect.... when i got the NTC3, is that i bashed too. Now - since i am almost always racing, would be nice to have a slightly faster car. I am beginning to get good enough, that i can out drive the NTC3
 
Looking forward to testing ur skillz. We need to set a date on when we are going to bash. It's already a month away. And see who else is going. Let me know.
 
well - i have decided to get the Reflex kit and upgrade with some of the team items. my LHS has the regular kit, and i can get it for a steal. figure the centax clutch and the one way are the options i really want. and can get those at a discount too.
 
Ok which would you say was the best out of these for 1/10 racing
team magic g4 e-class
hpi NITRO R40 PRO TOURER
Schumacher FUSION R12
tc3
They are all around the same price so which do you think is best for racing, the tc3 is the only shaft driven!
 
well - the shumacher is a joke, as is the G4. The R40 looks to be a good racer, but is too new to tell. The NTC3 is a proven national champion, as is the reflex NT. The major difference? The NTC3 is easier to drive, but the Reflex can get around a track faster - but only in the hands of a very experienced driver.

for the everyday joe - the NTC3 wins hands down.
 
Just want to add: That test you have posted up there is not of a Trinity G4 Pro, but a Yokomo GT-4 .. Big difference there!

I've not tried the R40, but I've raced the G4 for a while, and I must say it's just a extremely good car!

Everything is tight and solid, and it has an extremely low roll-center, which means no more traction roll!

I ended up in 2. place totally after 8 races in the Norwegian Nationals with the G4, and after going from an Serpent Impulse to a G4 I improved my laptimes with over 1 sec at all tracks this year.

So my rating of the G4 is 6/6..
 
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I was wondering about the gt-4 instead of the G4 in the description.

Excuse my On-Road ignorance but who makes the G4?

Oh, and Espeng....welcome to RCNT! The BEST online RC Forum on the world. I read through some of your other posts, glad to have another racer on the board. :thumbup:
 
Oh, I'm glad to be here :) I visited this forum this summer, but forgot to check back, but now that I did yesterday I found so many interesting threads, that I'll come back every day now :)

Anyways: The G4 is made in Taiwan by Team Magic. In the US it's branded as Trinity G4, but it's the same car. In Europe it's called Team Magic - Black Magic G4.

Team Magic's website is http://www.teammagic.com.tw/
 
G4 vs the Reflex

Since I have 3 Reflexes and a G4 I can pretty much tell you the difference in a parking lot racing enviorment.

The TRINITY Reflex Team Only (even the nt1000 as well really) is a solid kit, straight forward, clean and simple. It may not be as highly touted as the Magic car, but the Reflex is a formidable opponent on the track.

The thing i notice about my Flexes is that they have a wide adjustment margin that the car still handles very well in. In other words the handling envelope of the eflex seems very large. The G4 is more of a razors edge. Miss the set-up by "this" much and the car is a handfull. All the high zoot of the G4, the ultra low CG, and all that hype is exactly that for 99% of the drivers out there. The elite 1% will notice the difference, you and I however, will not.

The G4 is a tough car. Built very well, similar to the Reflex and it will take quite a pounding without giving up on you.

The nice part of owning Reflexes and the G4 is certain parts are interchangable. Such as the diffs. It is nice to cycle diffs in and out of cars and keeping them fresh is much easier since they fit both cars.

The slide rack assembly on the G4 requires constant attention. The servo saver on the Reflex does not.

I decided this past weekend to sell my G4. Not that I don't like the car, but in my opinion the Reflex is more flexable (no pun intended) than the G4 and I feel is easier to tune to my local track conditions. The G4 set our track record first time out of the box. It just doesn't run that well repeatedly. 10 or 15 degrees difference in track temps and the G4 is begging for some changes. The Reflex just mushes forward and continues to run well.

You want a G4? I'll trade you a Team Only Reflex for it. It has 10 races on the chassis. I have Reflex axles in the front, aluminum wheel adapters all around, a spare front oneway, K Factory 30mm Centax and the original shoe type 30mm that is still new. I never ran the car with the oem clutch.

Have a look at my G4 here:
http://www.bandbhobbies.com/g4/index.htm
 
Thanks for the great input there NitroJohnnyD.. You might be right in everything, I wouldn't know because I've never ran the Reflex, only raced against one once, and I think the driver was the problem there.

The standard setup from the book works pretty well for me, but it's as you said, once you find the right setup for the track the G4 rocks bigtime, and can outrun any type of car. I have to tweak the car for every track I race, but tires are 90% of the grip, so once I find the right tires, I usually just adjust the rear toe-in so it doesn't under/over-steer and I'm there!

Finding that setup is another thing though :)

I'm not sure about me racing the G4 for all eternity, but right now it works very well for me, and helped me secure 2nd place overall in the Norwegian Nationals.

If I'm gonna look at something new for next year, it would be the Mugen MTX-3, as it has proven to be really stable and fast in all the races I've attended this year.
 
The standard setup from the book works pretty well for me

Really, the box stock set-up? With 5 degrees of rear camber, silver springs and all that? Wow!

I just went back to the box stock set-up this past weekend after getting so far off base chasing 2 issues my car seems to have. They both understeer progressively worse as the main wears on and I struggle to get any decent forward bite. Which is kind of odd to be tight and loose at the same time!

Anyway back to box stock for me and it was pathetic even on new rubber (Fast Tires, Foam 26mm & 30mm 35 shore F & R, 64mm dia.) I put my reflex on the ground and ran almost 2 seconds a lap faster with old, worn out 41 shore Yokomos!

It's not that the G4 isn't doing the right thing, it is more of a time issue. The Reflex runs good as long as it has tires on it and fuel in the tank. The G4 just requires a little too much fine tuning and at this point I don't do the car justice because I cannot spend that extra time to find the little details that will really make the difference.

Still an excellent car in my opinion and I have to say that Nick & Alan over at Team Magic are two of the nicest guys who are only after satisfying you if you have a warranty/parts issue. I had a little problem when I first bought my G4 and I couldn't even run the car for the first three weeks while I was waiting for Trinity to make up their minds on what to do. I contacted Team Magic, I had the parts in question and a whopper of a bonus in my mailbox 3 days later. Then theyn followed up with me several times and even followed me around on a few of these boards to make sure I was truly happy with the service they provided! That my friends is dedication.

I'll prolly want the car back as soon as I sell it! But right now I have a huge supply of Reflex parts and I am so in tu8ne with what the Reflex wants set-up wise, I just rather stay with it.

Glad to hear you are doing well with the car.
 
I'm quite new at racing but I must say that the Team Magic G4 is an awesome car. I was racing with a Kyosho V One RR before and converted it to an EVO version but still it is not as sharp as the G4, once you've goy the setup right, its gonna improve your lap time. I've gone up to B main from C thats a huge improvement.!!!!


G4, Futaba, Arrow Tyres, Maxy fuel, RB X12.
 
Exactly the same thing happened for me! I was struggling in the middle of B finals, and now I've actually won A-finals! This can be one of two things: My G4 or the GQ tires I'm using. Because I've actually had less training this season than before! It's starting to get fun again :)
 
Hey!!!glad you've respond immediately. I've raced 5 times since last year, the last 4 races I was stuck in the C main. After switching to a G4 last 3 weeks and 2 days of testing to get the almost correct setup, I think I've gain a lot in a short period of time.The car have a strong built up even after crashing into the fence because of a stupid mistake of not reversing the fail safe trotle servo position and I'm still racing the car stock standard other than a rear spring changed and a front diffrential.With more testing and practice I hope to do better for the next race.
Cheers!!!!
 
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